How to debug flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows File Explorer?

[Roy Tremblay]

How can we debug a flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows 10
File Explorer?

There's nothing wrong with the local LAN.
There's nothing wrong with Android.
There's nothing wrong with WinSCP.
It's only Windows 10 File Explorer that is flaky.

How can I debug why?

BACKGROUND:
One of the easiest way to connect the Android file system to Windows from a
anywhere inside or outside of the house (i.e., without cables) and without
installing anything on Windows is to run an FTP server on Android.

With the FTP server running on Android, on Windows 10, you just use the
Windows File Explorer to connect to the entire Android file system as if
Android was mounted as a hard disk drive.
Loading Image...

But often, Windows 10 won't anonymously connect to Android via the File
Explorer ftp URL on the first or second or even third try:
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721 (where your LAN & port may vary)
Loading Image...

Eventually, Windows 10 *will* connect, without changing anything other than
rebooting either the phone or the PC or both - but the question is why is
Windows 10 so flaky?

By way of contrast, installing WinSCP works *every* time, without the
Windows 10 File Explorer flakiness.
Loading Image...

So my current use model is the following, but I ask why Win10 is so flaky?
1. I start the ES File Explorer FTP server on Android & get the URL
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721
2. I click on that URL which is already set up in Win10 "This PC"
3. If that works, I'm good to go.
If that fails, I can go through reboots and get it to finally work.
But it's easier to just use WinSCP when Win10 is flaky.
4. I start up WinSCP and that works *every* single time.

Note that nothing changed between Windows 10 File Explorer failing and
WinSCP working (browsing with a browser would work also), and note that
after rebooting the phone (usually) and sometimes Windows (not as often
needed), Windows 10 *will* eventually mount the Android phone in the
Windows File Explorer.

All I ask here is help from networking experts on how to debug why Window
10 File Explorer often fails to mount the Android file system when changing
nothing whatsoever, WinSCP or a browser connected to the FTP URL works just
fine.

[Geoff Realname]

Post by Roy Tremblay
How can we debug a flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows 10
File Explorer?
There's nothing wrong with the local LAN.
There's nothing wrong with Android.
There's nothing wrong with WinSCP.
It's only Windows 10 File Explorer that is flaky.
How can I debug why?
One of the easiest way to connect the Android file system to Windows from a
anywhere inside or outside of the house (i.e., without cables) and without
installing anything on Windows is to run an FTP server on Android.
With the FTP server running on Android, on Windows 10, you just use the
Windows File Explorer to connect to the entire Android file system as if
Android was mounted as a hard disk drive.
https://s3.postimg.org/oeccyw1ab/screenshot3.gif
But often, Windows 10 won't anonymously connect to Android via the File
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721 (where your LAN & port may vary)
https://s3.postimg.org/r22yrepib/screenshot1.gif
Eventually, Windows 10 *will* connect, without changing anything other than
rebooting either the phone or the PC or both - but the question is why is
Windows 10 so flaky?
By way of contrast, installing WinSCP works *every* time, without the
Windows 10 File Explorer flakiness.
https://s12.postimg.org/i7sfa92f1/screenshot2.gif
So my current use model is the following, but I ask why Win10 is so flaky?
1. I start the ES File Explorer FTP server on Android & get the URL
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721
2. I click on that URL which is already set up in Win10 "This PC"
3. If that works, I'm good to go.
If that fails, I can go through reboots and get it to finally work.
But it's easier to just use WinSCP when Win10 is flaky.
4. I start up WinSCP and that works *every* single time.
Note that nothing changed between Windows 10 File Explorer failing and
WinSCP working (browsing with a browser would work also), and note that
after rebooting the phone (usually) and sometimes Windows (not as often
needed), Windows 10 *will* eventually mount the Android phone in the
Windows File Explorer.
All I ask here is help from networking experts on how to debug why Window
10 File Explorer often fails to mount the Android file system when changing
nothing whatsoever, WinSCP or a browser connected to the FTP URL works just
fine.

Sorry, I can't help with your problem, but just to say thanks for
WinSCP. I've been having problems transferring files from Win10 via a
cable, but WinSCP works fine and I no longer have to transfer files via
Dropbox. No help to you, but a great help to me!

Geoff

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Geoff Realname
Sorry, I can't help with your problem, but just to say thanks for
WinSCP. I've been having problems transferring files from Win10 via a
cable, but WinSCP works fine and I no longer have to transfer files via
Dropbox. No help to you, but a great help to me!

Bummer. I saw a response, where I knew my question was so hard that only
the best of the best of the best would be able to offer any assistance,
when I saw the first line above.

Nonetheless, I'm very happy that WinSCP has served your need.
https://winscp.net/eng/download.php
https://sourceforge.net/projects/winscp/

AFAIK, WinSCP is one of a canonical free file-transfer tool for Windows.

It's so easy to transfer files from Android to Windows just by having both
devices on the same local LAN that I forget that some people still use USB
cable to transfer the files.

Nothing wrong with cable (it's fast) but the beauty of having all the
Android devices in the household on the network is that I can transfer
files from any device in the house to the computer and vice versa, without
getting up out of my chair.

So, for example, I can download a movie or dig up some ebooks or obtain a
podcast on the desktop PC, and then push that file to any mobile device on
the LAN, or pull files from any mobile device on the LAN.

All you need on the mobile device is to run an FTP server, which, for
Android, most of us use ES File Explorer's FTP server:
ESFileExplorer: Hamburger > Network > Remote Manager > Turn on

In ES File Explorer there's a way to make that sequence above a single
push-button desktop icon named "ESFTP".

ESFileExplorer: Remote Manager > 3 dots > Settings > Create shortcut

And, as you all know, you can change the name of any icon on the desktop
anyway, so, you can just call it "FTP" or whatever you want to call it.

The default port will be 3721 and the default login is anonymous, with a
default directory I think of "sdcard" (at least for my phone it was), but
all that is settable (since I'm rooted, my default is / so that I can move
HOSTS files about and mess about a bit in the Android /etc/ directory).

On Windows, all you need to do is create a network share point of address:
ftp://192.168.1.10:3721 (where the exact address depends on your LAN)

And, that, in and of itself, allows the entire Android phone to be opened
in the native Windows File Explorer.

Sometimes...

But the sad fact is that Windows networking is supremely flaky for reasons
unknown to me. So when Windows networking is flaky, I just use WinSCP,
which works 100% of the time.

A similar FTP URL method works for iOS devices to some extent (but iOS is a
different beast altogether with respect to file system access on the iOS
device).

[Paul]

Post by Roy Tremblay
How can we debug a flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows 10
File Explorer?
There's nothing wrong with the local LAN.
There's nothing wrong with Android.
There's nothing wrong with WinSCP.
It's only Windows 10 File Explorer that is flaky.
How can I debug why?
One of the easiest way to connect the Android file system to Windows from a
anywhere inside or outside of the house (i.e., without cables) and without
installing anything on Windows is to run an FTP server on Android.
With the FTP server running on Android, on Windows 10, you just use the
Windows File Explorer to connect to the entire Android file system as if
Android was mounted as a hard disk drive.
https://s3.postimg.org/oeccyw1ab/screenshot3.gif
But often, Windows 10 won't anonymously connect to Android via the File
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721 (where your LAN & port may vary)
https://s3.postimg.org/r22yrepib/screenshot1.gif
Eventually, Windows 10 *will* connect, without changing anything other than
rebooting either the phone or the PC or both - but the question is why is
Windows 10 so flaky?
By way of contrast, installing WinSCP works *every* time, without the
Windows 10 File Explorer flakiness.
https://s12.postimg.org/i7sfa92f1/screenshot2.gif
So my current use model is the following, but I ask why Win10 is so flaky?
1. I start the ES File Explorer FTP server on Android & get the URL
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721
2. I click on that URL which is already set up in Win10 "This PC"
3. If that works, I'm good to go.
If that fails, I can go through reboots and get it to finally work.
But it's easier to just use WinSCP when Win10 is flaky.
4. I start up WinSCP and that works *every* single time.
Note that nothing changed between Windows 10 File Explorer failing and
WinSCP working (browsing with a browser would work also), and note that
after rebooting the phone (usually) and sometimes Windows (not as often
needed), Windows 10 *will* eventually mount the Android phone in the
Windows File Explorer.
All I ask here is help from networking experts on how to debug why Window
10 File Explorer often fails to mount the Android file system when changing
nothing whatsoever, WinSCP or a browser connected to the FTP URL works just
fine.

You can use Wireshark to record the packets sent and received.

However, for that to work, requires a PCAP (packet capture) agent.
On Ethernet connections, this is easy, with the provided WinPCAP
installation that Wireshark bundles with it.

Other PCAP agents include airPCAP for wireless and there is some
sort of usbPCAP for usb connections. But those are not bundled
with Wireshark, may cost money etc. You have to track down a promiscuous
packet capture agent, depending on the kind of wire/media used for
the transfer.

*******

In the discussion here, they mention active and passive FTP connections,
and that a server may happen to be set up for passive only.

https://superuser.com/questions/88531/how-do-i-connect-to-an-ftp-site-in-windows-explorer

ftp://UserName:***@ftp.yoursite.com:portnum/path/to/files

Obviously, some of those parameters are optional. If using the
standard port, you don't need a portnum. You don't need to
provide "path", and you can cd down to the correct path while
in the session. What's missing, is a way to pass a PASV flag.

*******

To debug an FTP session, you can use Command Prompt and
test FTP from there. There is an ftp client that runs
in Command Prompt.

ftp ftp.yoursite.com

Of particular note for such sessions, there is the "pasv"
command, which switches the connection to passive. So at
least the Command Prompt version does support both.

From my notes, this is a PASV session, on a server that only
supports passive connections. You'd remove the PASV command
for non-passive connections.

ftp ftp.microsoft.com
user anonymous
pass ***@myisp.com
PASV
CD /products/Oemtest/v1.1/WOSTest/Tools/Acpi
binary
get dumppo.exe

That server isn't always running, so don't expect that to work.
That is the sequence to get a 12KB program that can be used
to repair minor ACPI issues on older Windows. Dumppo no longer
works on Windows 10.

Because those sessions are "interactive", you get to see
error messages if a connection cannot be made, or if you
forgot some parameter or step. Based on the evidence you
see there, that may help with your Explorer planned session.

Paul

[Frank Slootweg]

[...]

Post by Paul
You can use Wireshark to record the packets sent and received.

+1

Wireshark is not easy, but it's not terribly hard either, assuming one
has the needed networking expertise.

[...]

Post by Paul
In the discussion here, they mention active and passive FTP connections,
and that a server may happen to be set up for passive only.
https://superuser.com/questions/88531/how-do-i-connect-to-an-ftp-site-in-windows-explorer

Passive/active is indeed worth exploring.

I have similar 'flakeyness' problems as 'Roy', but with FTPUSE on the
Windows side. If FTPUSE doesn't connect, another FTP client - in my case
FileZilla - has no problems. I.e. similar to 'Roy' with (Windows 10)
File Explorer versus WINSCP. IME. most 'real' FTP clients default to
passive mode, so if WINSCP does too and File Explorer does not, that may
be a difference to look at. (FWIW, if I don't 'touch'/change my setup,
there's no problem, so for the moment I'm not pursueing this
'flakeyness').

[Excellent suggestion to use 'DOS' FTP command.]

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Frank Slootweg
I have similar 'flakeyness' problems as 'Roy', but with FTPUSE on the
Windows side. If FTPUSE doesn't connect, another FTP client - in my case
FileZilla - has no problems. I.e. similar to 'Roy' with (Windows 10)
File Explorer versus WINSCP. IME. most 'real' FTP clients default to
passive mode, so if WINSCP does too and File Explorer does not, that may
be a difference to look at. (FWIW, if I don't 'touch'/change my setup,
there's no problem, so for the moment I'm not pursueing this
'flakeyness').

Frank brings up an excellent suggestion which is for us to explore whether
"passive or active mode" might be involved in Windows File Explorer timing
out on FTP addresses.

Using the new search terms that Frank kindly brought up, I instantly found
this question on stackoverflow, which seems to be similar but there is the
inevitable confusion between Windows [Internet Explorer], and Windows [File
Explorer] where my question has nothing whatsoever to do with a web
browser:

This is the first seemingly apropos hit:
FTP works from CommandLine but not from Windows [File] Explorer
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2370112/ftp-works-from-commandline-but-not-from-windows-explorer

The answer there appeared to be:
"If ftp.exe can connect, but Windows [File] Explorer can't,
then you have a Passive FTP server, and you need to un-check
the following:
Control Panel > Internet Options > Advanced Settings > "Use Passive FTP"
then click Apply - now Windows [File] Explorer will be able to connect
to the FTP server.

However I'm not sure if this solution above applies to the Windows [File]
Explorer or to the Windows [Internet] Explorer web browser.

I've unchecked the box, but do you know if that applies to the file browser
or the web browser?

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Roy Tremblay
However I'm not sure if this solution above applies to the Windows [File]
Explorer or to the Windows [Internet] Explorer web browser.

In a nutshell, the difference between passive and active FTP is from the
standpoint of the server where the difference seems to be whether the
server establishes the data channel (active) or whether the server lets the
client establish the data channel (passive).
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1699145/what-is-the-difference-between-active-and-passive-ftp

However, search results are extremely confusing as to whether the Windows
10 "Internet Options" applies "only" to Windows Internet Explorer or if
that Internet Options form also applies to Windows File Explorer.

So every hit is really a guess since not once have I seen a clearly written
question and answer which makes it clear that we're NOT discussion a web
browser at any point in time here.

Here's another hit which, again, confuses Windows [File] Explorer with the
Windows [Internet] Explorer, but which seems to define a similar problem
using the Windows File Explorer.
https://www.tenforums.com/network-sharing/85436-how-set-passive-mode-ftp.html
Windows 10: How to set passive mode for ftp?
"I have found the answer (after way too many hours searching). The easy
way is to search for "Internet Options" in the Win10 search, and that will
provide a link to the older style options. For some reason I can't find a
way to access this in the newer Win10 config menus. Then it's "Advanced"
and in there you'll find a "Passive FTP" check box. Problem
solved...finally."

Given that information above, it seems that this "Internet Options" form,
which also covers web browsing, also applies, apparently, to file browsing
using the Windows File Explorer.

Here's what my Control Panel > Internet Options > Advanced was prior:
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[X]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)

Here's what my Control Panel > Internet Options > Advanced is now:
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[_]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)

Time will tell if this works for the Windows File Explorer to make it more
stable.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Roy Tremblay
Given that information above, it seems that this "Internet Options" form,
which also covers web browsing, also applies, apparently, to file browsing
using the Windows File Explorer.
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[X]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[_]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)
Time will tell if this works for the Windows File Explorer to make it more
stable.

Unfortunately, changing the Windows 10 "Internet Options" Advanced setting
to switch from the Passive FTP default to Active FTP, didn't work.

At the very same time that I can't connect using the flaky Windows 10 File
Explorer, WinSCP has absolutely no problem connecting with the same
credentials just moments after Windows 10 flaky File Explorer failed.
Loading Image...

At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

[Frank Slootweg]

Roy Tremblay <***@nlnet.nl> wrote:
[...]

Post by Roy Tremblay
Unfortunately, changing the Windows 10 "Internet Options" Advanced setting
to switch from the Passive FTP default to Active FTP, didn't work.

Given that situation - i.e. no improvement - and having read all the
current responses, I think your best bet is - as Paul suggested - to use
the'DOS' ftp *command* - i.e. ftp.exe - to try to troubleshoot a
ftp-session to ES File Explorer's FTP server.

Another suggestion: Try another (than ES File Explorer's) FTP *server*
on your Android device. ES File Explorer is a *common* 'app', but IMNSHO
it isn't all that red hot.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Frank Slootweg
Given that situation - i.e. no improvement - and having read all the
current responses, I think your best bet is - as Paul suggested - to use
the'DOS' ftp *command* - i.e. ftp.exe - to try to troubleshoot a
ftp-session to ES File Explorer's FTP server.

I agree with you that the problem is something in how communication between
the client and server is different with the two ftp clients (i.e., Windows
File Explorer vs any other tested FTP client to date) ... or

Post by Frank Slootweg
Another suggestion: Try another (than ES File Explorer's) FTP *server*
on your Android device.

I agree with you that the problem could be the communication of ES File
Explorer's FTP server is somehow different with the two ftp clients (i.e.,
Windows File Explorer vs any other tested FTP client to date).

Post by Frank Slootweg
ES File Explorer is a *common* 'app', but IMNSHO
it isn't all that red hot.

I also agree that an FTP server on Android is a commodity, so, any other
Android FTP server should be able to be swapped in place of ES File
Exporer's FTP server.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Roy Tremblay
I also agree that an FTP server on Android is a commodity, so, any other
Android FTP server should be able to be swapped in place of ES File
Exporer's FTP server.

Since I don't even have a Google Play account on Android, I searched
F-Droid for FTP servers, which they have a few to choose from.
https://f-droid.org

primitive ftpd https://f-droid.org/packages/org.primftpd/
FTP Server (Free) https://f-droid.org/packages/be.ppareit.swiftp_free/

I'm not sure of the details (because I don't use Google Play anymore), but
the "ppareit.swiftp" FTP Server app above seems to be packaged for free on
F-Droid and for free/pay on Google Play seemingly similarly to how OSMAnd+
is the Google Play payware equivalent of the F-Droid freeware OSMAnd+ but
where OSMAnd is the slightly cripped version of the Google Play payware.

By analogy, these seem to be the respective free/pay Google Play analogs:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.ppareit.swiftp
FTP Server (Demo) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.ppareit.swiftp_free

In addition, a search on Google Play pops up these free FTP Servers:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.ftpserver
FTPServer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=lutey.FTPServer
Solid Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.solidexplorer
FTP Express https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zifero.ftpclient
FX File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nextapp.fx
AndFTP https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=lysesoft.andftp
FSync https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.unisaran.android.fsync
FTP Cafe https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ftpcafe.trial

And, of course:
ES File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.estrongs.android.pop

[Frank Slootweg]

Roy Tremblay <***@nlnet.nl> wrote:
[...]

Post by Roy Tremblay
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.ppareit.swiftp
FTP Server (Demo) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.ppareit.swiftp_free
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.ftpserver
FTPServer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=lutey.FTPServer
Solid Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.solidexplorer
FTP Express https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zifero.ftpclient
FX File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nextapp.fx
AndFTP https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=lysesoft.andftp
FSync https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.unisaran.android.fsync
FTP Cafe https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ftpcafe.trial
ES File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.estrongs.android.pop

I don't know which search you did in Google Play (the website), but if
I search on "FTP server", I get some which are not on your list.

I haven't (yet) used another FTP server than the on in ES File
Explorer, but I've (shortly) used a WebDAV server from a developer which
also makes other servers, including a FTP server:

"WebDAV Server" (by The Olive Tree)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.webdavserver>

"Ftp Server" (by The Olive Tree)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.ftpserver>
"Passive and active modes."

Another multi-server developer (which I have *not* used):

"FTP Server Ultimate" (by Ice Cold Apps)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.icecoldapps.ftpserverultimate>

This is a Dutch company, so it must be good!

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Frank Slootweg
I don't know which search you did in Google Play (the website), but if
I search on "FTP server", I get some which are not on your list.

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

Thanks for clarifying that there are a ton of free FTP servers on Google
Play, which I agree. I hope I didn't imply my search was exhaustive since I
said I don't even use Google Play.

I only ran the search so that others could benefit from the results, since
most people probably use Google Play even though they don't need to most of
the time.

If your search found *better* FTP Servers than mine did, then that's good
because the point is for others to benefit from our efforts so that
everyone benefits from every post we make.

Post by Frank Slootweg
I haven't (yet) used another FTP server than the on in ES File
Explorer, but I've (shortly) used a WebDAV server from a developer which
"WebDAV Server" (by The Olive Tree)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.webdavserver>
"Ftp Server" (by The Olive Tree)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.ftpserver>
"Passive and active modes."

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

You'll note that my list did contain an "Olive Tree" FTP Server:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.ftpserver

So it's good that we are helping others with URLs to good Android FTP
servers.

Post by Frank Slootweg
"FTP Server Ultimate" (by Ice Cold Apps)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.icecoldapps.ftpserverultimate>
This is a Dutch company, so it must be good!

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

It's good that we work together to help others find good Android FTP
servers as that last link to Ice Cold App's FTP server was not in my
original list.

Looking at the marketing blurb, it sounds like a good find for us to test,
however I do note that it seems to have some limitations which may or may
not matter to the user.
"In this version you can add two servers (FTP, SFTP, FTPS Implicit, or
Dynamic DNS Updaters), three users and three optional allowed IP addresses
per server. If you want to be able to add unlimited items please buy FTP
Server Ultimate Pro."

Finding the best is more than just running a search.

To that end, I'm testing out the free ones I previously mentioned from
F-Droid, which are working fine with Windows 10 so far (time will tell).

[nospam]

Post by Roy Tremblay

Post by Frank Slootweg
I don't know which search you did in Google Play (the website), but if
I search on "FTP server", I get some which are not on your list.

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

which often costs more than the buck or two a paid app costs.

[M.L.]

Post by Roy Tremblay
At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

In spite of the issues you're having with it, I can say with certainty
that Windows 10 File Explorer works with Android FTP clients. I use it
all the time.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by M.L.

Post by Roy Tremblay
At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

In spite of the issues you're having with it, I can say with certainty
that Windows 10 File Explorer works with Android FTP clients. I use it
all the time.

Everyone agrees with you that Windows File Explorer "works" with FTP URIs.
Nobody said otherwise.

What I (and some others) have said is that something is flaky in that it
doesn't work all the time when other FTP clients on Windows work just fine
at that same time that the Windows File Explorer doesn't.

That's why this question is a "how to debug" question.

I think the debugging suggestions from Paul & Frank are valid, which take
time but which should elucidate, over time, what's different about the
Windows File Explorer that makes it fail when other Windows FTP clients
work.

1. Debug with Wiresshark (to look at communication differences)
2. Experiment with different Android FTP servers
3. Experiment with passive vs active FTP-client settings

What's still confusing is that nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode
if it's true what Ken Blake said that the Windows Control Panel "Internet
Options" setting is only for the web browser named Windows Internet
Explorer.

Whether Ken is correct or not is what the Windows users collectively can
clarify since I showed indications that both the Windows File Explorer and
the Windows Internet Explorer "explore the Internet"; but that, in and of
itself, tells us nothing about whether the Control Panel "Internet Options"
affects the Windows File Explorer.

Hence it's an open question whose answer is only known to Windows experts:
Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A: ?

[Char Jackson]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:36:11 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay

Post by Roy Tremblay
What's still confusing is that nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

It was the first Google hit just now, so it's probably more a case that
nobody bothered to Google it for you. Could Google be wrong? Sure, but
see below on how to test it quickly and easily.

You set active vs passive globally, via Internet Options. That setting
affects both Internet Explorer and File Explorer.

Post by Roy Tremblay
Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A: ?

You don't have to be any kind of expert. Change the setting and test it.
Internet Options, Advanced tab, partway down.

Download and install an FTP server on your PC. Configure it to allow
only active or only passive connections, then try connecting to it with
File Explorer. Yes, you can have the FTP server and the FTP client
running on the same host.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Char Jackson

Post by Roy Tremblay
What's still confusing is that nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

It was the first Google hit just now, so it's probably more a case that
nobody bothered to Google it for you. Could Google be wrong? Sure, but
see below on how to test it quickly and easily.

First, let's try to keep this a *positive* discussion, where your
intimation is patently false but understood completely so I'm ok that you
think I didn't google.

Since I already provided numerous URLs to stackexchange and specifically to
http://www.how2lab.com/internet/hosting/ftp-using-windows-explorer.php
it's clear that I googled for the answer.

The problem is that the search terms for Windows File Explorer and Windows
Internet Explorer tend to get confused since almost NOBODY writes
explicityly what I have been very careful to do in this thread, which is to
distinguish between the *file* explorer, and the *browser*, both of which
explore the Internet and both of which many people loosely refer to as
"Windows Explorer".

Post by Char Jackson
You set active vs passive globally, via Internet Options. That setting
affects both Internet Explorer and File Explorer.

This is as I had *guessed* but it's completely contrary to what Ken Blake
*said*, so, do you have a reference other than the reference I already
quoted to Ken Blake (see below that says the same thing you just said?
http://www.how2lab.com/internet/hosting/ftp-using-windows-explorer.php

Post by Char Jackson
You don't have to be any kind of expert. Change the setting and test it.
Internet Options, Advanced tab, partway down.

I think you're just a little behind on the results since I already reported
back that I tested unchecking that setting in the Control Panel Internet
Options Advanced section, and nothing changed.

However, I did find out something interesting when I ran a few tests
suggested by Paul and Frank so I'm working on that as we speak.

Post by Char Jackson
Download and install an FTP server on your PC. Configure it to allow
only active or only passive connections, then try connecting to it with
File Explorer. Yes, you can have the FTP server and the FTP client
running on the same host.

As every post should help everyone collectively, I thank you for that
unique debugging idea, which, after all, is the topic of this thread.

Thanks for that debugging suggestion!

[Paul]

Post by Roy Tremblay
Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A: ?

Hence, it's in your best interest to characterize the FTP server
being provided by Android, to see whether this is even a PASV
issue. I wouldn't get my knickers in a knot, unless I had specifically
narrowed the issue down to that factor. What did your
Command Prompt ftp session testing show you ? What new
symptoms did it show ?

Anyone who has even remotely heard of FTP, should know
how to carry out an interactive session (using whatever
passes for a Terminal on the platform). As it's going
to provide feedback. What steps fail there ?

Paul

[Andy Burns]

Post by Roy Tremblay
nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

If you want that level of control (and more besides) use a 'proper' FTP
client like filezilla etc, not Windows Explorer that just has minimal
FTP functionality built-in.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Roy Tremblay
nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

If you want that level of control (and more besides) use a 'proper' FTP
client like filezilla etc, not Windows Explorer that just has minimal
FTP functionality built-in.

Thank you for that suggestion to use FileZilla to replace both Windows File
Explorer and WinSCP for exploring Android files over the LAN on Windows.
Loading Image...

Since every post should add to our combined tribal knowledge, I looked up
FileZilla to see how it differed from WinSCP which was listed in the
original post.

This seems to be the canonical location for FileZilla:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla/
. FTP client and server
. Supports FTP, FTPS and SFTP
. Built-in file management
. Advanced file settings
. Reduces timeout errors <==== this may be useful if it's real
. Multi-language support

When installing this FileZilla client version 3.17.0.1 onto Windows, the
FileZilla installer adds a Windows drag-and-drop shell extention, much like
what Windows File Explorer does.

Interestingly, when I ran the newly downloaded and installed FileZilla
client for the first time, it took a really long time to come up, where I
had thought it hung the system, but then it finally popped up saying that a
new version (3.27.0.1) was available (which was a surprise since I had only
moments before downloaded the latest on Sourceforge) and that it had
already downloaded that new version into my "Downloads" directory (which is
interesting, because I don't have a Downloads directory).

It had an "update" button, but I never blindly install that way, preferring
instead to archive the installers and to run them on my own terms.

So, in a rare (for me) case where I have to search for something that was
just moments prior downloaded (just like the rest of the world does all the
time), for the first time in *years*, I had to search for something just
moments before downloaded!

The first place I looked for a "Downloads" directory was the location I
stored the executable, but it wasn't there. The next place I looked was my
C:\tmp\ directory which is where I have the Windows TEMP and System TEMP
directories set to (at a lower level).

I don't use Microsoft Edge, but I searched for where it puts stuff because
I had read that you can't set up Edge like a normal browser to just ask
where to download things:
http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-change-default-download-location-in-microsoft-edge/
That said the default Downloads directory for that specific browser is:
C:\Users\YourUserName\Downloads\
but of course, that directory wouldn't exist (and doesn't exist).

Just in case I had changed the Edge downloads directory location long ago,
when Windows was installed, I checked the registry:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Classes\LocalSettings\
Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\AppContainer\Storage\
microsoft.microsoftedge_8wekyb3d8bbwe\MicrosoftEdge\Main\
Default Download Directory = C:\tmp

At this point, I resorted to the basic Windows search mechanism:
C:\tmp% dir /s/a/l/on/b C:\* > salonb.txt

Meanwhile, while that was running, this explains a default Downloads
dir:http://windowsreport.com/change-download-location-windows-10-store-apps/
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Appx\
PackageRoot = C:\Program Files\WindowsApps

That's interesting because nothing ever goes on purpose into "Program
Files" on my system, so, taking a look there I found I had to change all
sorts of permissions, so I gave up on that tack (since it seems to be only
for the Windows store anyway, which I'll never use in my life.)

By now, my search had completed so looking into the text file I find:
c:\users\user\appdata\roaming\filezilla
but that just had some xml and sqlite files.

Looking further, I see something in "recent", which is odd because I have
all the "recent" stuff completely turned off in Windows 10 since the day it
was installed (again, I have never needed it before).
c:\users\user\appdata\roaming\microsoft\windows\recent\filezilla download _
sourceforge.pdf.lnk
c:\users\user\appdata\roaming\microsoft\windows\recent\filezilla.lnk
But those seemed to just point to my recent downloads where I knew where I
put them since I always know at all times where I download files.

Ah, here it is!
c:\downloads\filezilla_3.27.0.1_win64-setup.exe
It had never occurred to me that there is/was a C:\Downloads directory
because I've never used it, and, in fact, it was empty save for this one
file.

Killing the old FileZilla process and installing the new fileZilla, I
entered into the "Host" section "ftp://192.168.1.16:3721" and the
"Username" of "anonymous" and a blank password (I've never had to type an
anonymous password before) and a "Port" of "3721" (why isn't the port next
to the server setting?). That's a dumb UI not to put the port next to the
host but I changed the host to remove the port, but it didn't log in.

It could be the need for a password (although I've been using anonymous FTP
to my phone from Windows for more than a year and never had to type in a
password before) but it worked (so I guessed at the right password).

That logged in and put me at "/" on Android (the Android phone is rooted).
Loading Image...

Going into the Android DCIM/Camera/ directory, it was nice to see "view":
Loading Image...

That's helpful to see what an image might be, but it's worthy to note that
what actually happened was a file copy from Android to Windows and then it
was opened on Windows whereas what I want to see are thumbnails.

Looking about for settings that will display thumbnails, I see none, but I
did see some settings for active versus passive ftp client operation, which
was, after all, the main debugging point:
https://s4.postimg.org/ho5djz5od/filezillasettings.jpg

Since this is my first exposure to FileZilla, I'll reserve judgement, but
upon first inspection, it does seem to have more options than did WinSCP,
but I'll use it for a few days to be sure since I generally only use the
one best canonical freeware tool for any particular job.

[Andy Burns]

the "Username" of "anonymous" and a blank password (I've never had to type an
anonymous password before)

In days of yore, it was traditional to use your email address as the
password when logging on as anonymous.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Andy Burns

the "Username" of "anonymous" and a blank password (I've never had to type an
anonymous password before)

In days of yore, it was traditional to use your email address as the
password when logging on as anonymous.

I used to do ftp manually, in the days of old, but that's a memory as
distant as the time I used to sand the points in the distributor and gap
the plugs and twist the distributor to get the timing to 4 degrees BTDC.

From memory, it used to be something like this:
ftp 111.222.333.444 21
user anonymous
pass (we usually just hit the return key or typed in garbage)
binary <== it was always safest to just type it and get it over with
lcd <== if it mattered what the local directory was
cd /path/to/files/
prompt <== it was easiest to turn off the prompt
mget * <== at least if you wanted a multiple get
quit

As always, there were many ways to skin that cat (e.g., "ftp -i", and
"prompt off", etc.).

Anyway, in this case, FileZilla required a password while WinSCP simply had
a button for "anonymous" as did Windows File Explorer.

The password, apparently, for FileZilla, was just the 9 characters
'anonymous' without making it look like an email address.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by M.L.

Post by Roy Tremblay
At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

In spite of the issues you're having with it, I can say with certainty
that Windows 10 File Explorer works with Android FTP clients. I use it
all the time.

I think you mean "with Android FTP servers", because Windows 10 File
Explorer is the FTP client.

If so, which FTP server(s) do you use on Android? (Please give the
full Google Play URL or the Google Play 'id' or the excat name and exact
developer name. Thanks.)

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:04:55 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay

Post by Roy Tremblay
However, search results are extremely confusing as to whether the Windows
10 "Internet Options" applies "only" to Windows Internet Explorer or if
that Internet Options form also applies to Windows File Explorer.

Why would you think Internet Options had anything to do with File
Explorer? If there's a question as to what they apply to, it would be
to whether they apply to IE, Edge, and third-party browsers.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Ken Blake
Why would you think Internet Options had anything to do with File
Explorer? If there's a question as to what they apply to, it would be
to whether they apply to IE, Edge, and third-party browsers.

Thanks for answering my question, which is, I think, summarized as:
Q: Does "Internet Options" apply to the Windows File Explorer?
A: No.

However, it's not anywhere nearly as simple as you make it out to be.

For example, I'm sure you're aware that the Windows File Explorer also
explores the Internet.
Loading Image...

That means:
A. The Windows Internet Explorer explores the Internet.
B. The Windows File Explorer also explores the Internet.
Loading Image...

But don't believe me.
If you want proof, just read this article:
http://www.how2lab.com/internet/hosting/ftp-using-windows-explorer.php

Notice that they use both Windows File Explorer and Windows Internet
Explorer to explore the Internet.

They say "Windows Explorer is tightly integrated with Internet Explorer and
the transition from a local location is often seamless with a network
location."

So, maybe we need others to clarify here, since it sure seems to me that
both Windows File Explorer and Windows Internet Explorer explore the
Internet, while, if I understand the gist of what you're asking me, you are
wondering why I would think that.

In summary, I may very well be wrong (and you may very well be correct),
but, at the moment, I think it's supremely confusing whether the "Internet
Options" form in Windows 10 applies to the Windows File Explorer, or not.
Loading Image...

Maybe someone who knows more than I do about Windows can help clarify?

[nospam]

Post by Roy Tremblay
In summary, I may very well be wrong

yep

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Roy Tremblay
In summary, I may very well be wrong

yep

You seem to be a Windows expert.
What is the answer to this question?

Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A:

[Paul]

Post by Roy Tremblay

Post by Roy Tremblay
In summary, I may very well be wrong

yep

You seem to be a Windows expert.
What is the answer to this question?
Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?

Don't get distracted.

Work on the problem. You're still in
symptom collection phase. It's too early
for "conclusions".

Paul

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Paul
Work on the problem. You're still in
symptom collection phase. It's too early
for "conclusions".

Thanks Paul for that helpful debugging advice since what we want here is
for every post to help everyone with similar problems.

I noticed something *different* when I installed a new FTP Server on
Android.
FTP Server (Free) https://f-droid.org/packages/be.ppareit.swiftp_free/

When I tried to connect to that new Android FTP server, the default Windows
10 Firewall popped up.

I only realized this belatedly, because the firewall message popped up and
I never understand what it's asking so I just clicked one of the two (or
both?) options, and then the Windows File Explorer FTP client worked with
the new Android FTP server.

Trying again, this time with Primitive ftp so that Windows pops up the
firewall message anew:
primitive ftpd https://f-droid.org/packages/org.primftpd/

This connection to the Android file system worked fine from the Windows
File Explorer, and, unfortunately, the Windows firewall message that had
popped up for the ppareit FTP Server didn't pop up for the Primitive FTP
server - but the default Windows firewall still *might* be the culprit
after all.
Loading Image...

[Roy Tremblay]

As an update, the situation has greatly improved with changing the FTP
server on the Android phone and by changing the FTP client on Windows 10.

The results are currently mixed, but these are the ad hoc observations.

- Whenever Windows 10 File Explorer doesn't connect, the Windows
"FileZilla" FTP client will connect (as will the "WinSCP" FTP client but
FileZilla has a nicer user interface than WinSCP but both work fine every
time).

- It seems that Windows 10 File Explorer doesn't connect more often when
the Android FTP Server is "ES File Explorer" ESFTP (but I need to keep
observing to make sure of that observation).

- It seems Windows 10 File Explorer is more reliable when the Android FTP
Server is "FTP Server (Free)" than when the ES File Explorer server is used
(but I need to keep observing).

So at the moment, if I use the free FileZilla client on Windows and the
free "FTP Server (Free)" on Android, everything works fine all the time.

Any setup using Windows File Explorer doesn't always work, but, with the
FTP Server (Free) on Android, Windows File Explorer has been "mostly"
reliable to the point that it's no longer a bone of contention.

I will have to observe more over time, but overall, thanks for all the
helpful suggestions, which helped me and others, and will continue to help
others in the future.

[Roy Tremblay]

Post by Roy Tremblay
- It seems Windows 10 File Explorer is more reliable when the Android FTP
Server is "FTP Server (Free)" than when the ES File Explorer server is used
(but I need to keep observing).

I think the problem is that Windows 10 File Explorer stinks when connecting
to an Android phone running any of a bunch of free FTP Servers on anonymous
FTP credentials over the local WiFi LAN.

Specifically, Windows File Explorer usually works the "first time" where
this screenshot is of the Android file system from slash (/) downward,
e.g., if you want to copy the HOSTS files across Windows and Android over
the local WiFi LAN.
Loading Image...

But Windows File Explorer very often (but not always) fails on subsequent
tries (tested with multiple FTP servers).

Meanwhile, FileZilla works every time (only seconds later).
Loading Image...

[benji hunt]

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[Asfar Hussain]

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