home screen icon to connect to wi-fi network

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Instead of waiting for the phone to find the network and connect to it,
especially when there is a long list of available networks that have been
already connected to, is there a way to make a home screen icon to quickly
connect to a definite wi-fi network ap (without using the settings)?

I doubt your finger is faster to click an icon, and run a process to
select a wifi hotspot, than the scanning to determine which wifi hotspot
is within reach and has the strongest signal. Of course, that assume
automatic hotspot connect, not where you have to authorize the connect.

https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/wifi-network-selection

If you are at home, your phone should automatically switch to the wifi
modem in your house, not try to use a wifi hotspot across the country
where you were vacationing up until yesterday.

Personally I don't want auto-connect except for my home wifi cable
modem. Anyone can pretend they're a hotspot to which you were connected
before, or pretend they're the hotspot where you are, like running their
own hotspot named StarbucksFreeWifi at a Starbucks shop. I prefer to
get prompted to allow a hotspot connect rather than allow automatically.

https://news.uthsc.edu/announcements/cybersecurity-tip-of-the-week-how-to-disable-wi-fi-auto-connect-and-bluetooth/

Except for your home wifi hotspot, auto-connect should be disabled for
the other hotspots saved on your phone (for those you haven't
deleted/forgotten, because you're not going back there again). If only
your home wifi hotspot has auto-connect enabled, and the rest don't (you
get prompted to allow those), the auto-connect to your home wifi should
be extremely fast, and faster then your finger.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pw.wifishortcut

That puts an icon on your screen to quickly jump to wifi settings
instead of having to drop the shade to navigate through the settings
menus to the wifi settings. Never tried it since Android 10 minimum is
required, and I'm on an ancient Android 8 phone.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.opengait.wifishortcuts

Maybe that gives you what you want. It defines a widget to a specified
wifi network, and you can set the widget to connect when tapped. No
idea if it works on your phone (no Android version mentioned). This
says it works back to Android 5, was last updated in 2020, but that
doesn't mean it will work on whatever Android you have.

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-15 17:18:14 UTC

Post by VanguardLH
I doubt your finger is faster to click an icon, and run a process to
select a wifi hotspot, than the scanning to determine which wifi hotspot
is within reach and has the strongest signal. Of course, that assume
automatic hotspot connect, not where you have to authorize the connect.
https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/wifi-network-selection

Thank you for trying to help me as I have spent hours and hours on this,
where all I want is something so basic that I don't know why it's hard.

All I want is to put a shortcut on my home screen that connects to a known
access point bssid/ssid pairing, which should be simple to create, right?

That link goes to "Wi-Fi network selection" which "outlines the algorithms
and procedures used in Android 12 for selecting and switching between Wi-Fi
networks" (I'm on Android 13, but it shouldn't be much different than 12).

Reading that was interesting because I've always wondered what the
algorithm is for how Android orders the possible wi-fi connections
(for example, if an RSSI is rapidly changing, it falls down in the list).

That nice article explains how the candidates are evaluated, where it says
"The candidate with the highest score is the winning candidate", which is
neat but which doesn't solve the problem of creating a shortcut to an ap.

However, one useful point they hammer home is that the connection is to the
BSSID and not to the human-readable SSID (which everyone thinks it is, but
it's not). The BSSID is what's unique. Not the SSID (which is just words).

What's also very important is that deep down in that nice article is says
"Android has a user connect choice algorithm that allows the selection
process to prefer Wi-Fi networks that a user has explicitly connected to,
for example, a home network", which is a fundamental thing to understand.

Post by VanguardLH
If you are at home, your phone should automatically switch to the wifi
modem in your house, not try to use a wifi hotspot across the country
where you were vacationing up until yesterday.

By setup design, mine doesn't automatically connect to any wi-fi hotspot.

That's because automatic connections require a repetitive broadcast packet
of the known wi-fi network bssid, which is a detrimental privacy issue.

That's why I just want to tap once on one of a set of prepared home screen
icons to connect to any given known wi-fi access point, in a single tap.

Post by VanguardLH
Personally I don't want auto-connect except for my home wifi cable
modem. Anyone can pretend they're a hotspot to which you were connected
before, or pretend they're the hotspot where you are, like running their
own hotspot named StarbucksFreeWifi at a Starbucks shop. I prefer to
get prompted to allow a hotspot connect rather than allow automatically.
https://news.uthsc.edu/announcements/cybersecurity-tip-of-the-week-how-to-disable-wi-fi-auto-connect-and-bluetooth/

You are wise to not automatically connect, not only because of an
access-point-name impersonation (which isn't really likely given they use
the bssid, and not the ssid to do the connection) but because the bssid of
every autoconnect setting has to be broadcast in order to connect to it.

As an example, if there is a location that is collecting the broadcast
packets (which is easy to do), then that location can tell you are there
every Monday and Wednesday but never on Saturdays (for example), simply by
collecting your unique bssid broadcast packets seeking your access point.

That means your phone is always shouting out who you are everywhere you go.

Post by VanguardLH
Except for your home wifi hotspot, auto-connect should be disabled for
the other hotspots saved on your phone (for those you haven't
deleted/forgotten, because you're not going back there again). If only
your home wifi hotspot has auto-connect enabled, and the rest don't (you
get prompted to allow those), the auto-connect to your home wifi should
be extremely fast, and faster then your finger.

I disagree but I understand you are assuming that there is a duplication in
the human-readable name of the home access point - but as I understand
wi-fi connections, the phone connects to a bssid - and not to an ssid.

Even so, the problem is when you're away from your home access point.
Then the phone is shouting out your ssid/bssid pair everywhere you go.

Which is unique to your phone, so it betrays you everywhere you go.
(Well, it could also be unique to all the phones in your household.)

Post by VanguardLH
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pw.wifishortcut
That puts an icon on your screen to quickly jump to wifi settings
instead of having to drop the shade to navigate through the settings
menus to the wifi settings. Never tried it since Android 10 minimum is
required, and I'm on an ancient Android 8 phone.

Thanks for that pointer to com.pw.wifishortcut, which I hopefully installed
and tested, but it doesn't do anything more than running the intent
com.android.settings/com.android.settings.Settings$WifiSettingsActivity
which you can show by connecting the phone to adb and running this command
adb shell am start -n com.android.settings/com.android.settings.Settings$WifiSettingsActivity

That's not a different number of steps than longpressing the wi-fi tile at
the top of your screen (if you have the wi-fi icon in the first 5 tiles).

It's not a bad program though. But it doesn't connect to a known network.
Too bad. But thanks for finding that application for the question.

I especially appreciate you found a well rated free app with no ads.

Post by VanguardLH
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.opengait.wifishortcuts
Maybe that gives you what you want. It defines a widget to a specified
wifi network, and you can set the widget to connect when tapped. No
idea if it works on your phone (no Android version mentioned). This
says it works back to Android 5, was last updated in 2020, but that
doesn't mean it will work on whatever Android you have.

Thanks for that pointer to net.opengait.wifishortcuts, which sounded
promising until I started it up and it requires a whole bunch of
permissions that it shouldn't need - like location being always on.

Again I appreciate you found a well rated free app with no ads,
but it says after Android 8.1 (Oreo) it needs location permission to scan
for nearby access points, which I simply don't understand since Android
itself scans for nearby access points WITHOUT needing location permission
to always be on. It says "The app won't function without location being
turned on" and they're right. Too bad, as it's a nice app otherwise.

I wish this Pixel suggestion would work for my Galaxy but it doesn't.
How to create shortcut for hotspot on home screen
https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/203734046/how-to-create-shortcut-for-hotspot-on-home-screen

That's too bad because the title is EXACTLY what I want to be able to do!

I did find this rather complex potential solution by searching.
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/5477-absolutely-tired-of-the-wifi-toggle-in-android-13-alternatives

It was more of a gripe session but the basic task the guy was asking for is
similar, which is a shortcut to connect to a known wi-fi access point.

After an hour of trying the solution, I gave up as it suggests something
called "Better Internet Tiles" which needs "Shizuku" for its Shell Access.
https://github.com/CasperVerswijvelt/Better-Internet-Tiles/releases/tag/v3.0.0
Name: app-release-github.apk
Size: 5213175 bytes (5090 KiB)
SHA256: 7390BE3640B3E21155E4F325ABC2F29CD4F0CB4692D3FC065601449A0051B4D4
which requires pairing of adb with the Shizuku for non-root Android phones
and which itself requires developer options wireless debugging=on, which is
no problem as most of the time I'll be home when I want a wifi connection.

Since I'm not rooted, I need to use adb to start Shizuku on Android 13.
https://github.com/RikkaApps/Shizuku/releases/tag/v13.5.4
Name: shizuku-v13.5.4.r1049.0e53409-release.apk
Size: 3442426 bytes (3361 KiB)
SHA256: A05832CE3716AFB1FCCCF46F348006D2A296CA777E1FF3D223797DC74D06B31F

Since I'm not rooted, I had to also use adb to pair adb to the phone.
adb pair 192.168.0.10:38623 55898 (you get the pairing code from wireless
debugging tile which you turn on in the developer options settings).

And then I had to use the adb shell to connect that pairing to Shizuku.
adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh

Then I had to grant access for "Better Internet Tiles" to "Shizuku" in the
Android settings for the "Better Internet Tiles" settings, which was fine.

Only then could I run "Better Internet Tiles" (which put a shortcut on my
home screen when I had installed it) which then said "Missing permissions"
which said "Shell Access is required" (which I gave it via Shizuku) which
worked as the Better Internet Tiles GUI went from pink to green saying
"Shizuku allows normal apps to use system API's directly with elevated
privileges using ADB on non-rooted devices", so that part worked perfectly.

When in the "Better Internet Tiles" GUI, everything was green, there were a
few "plus" (+) buttons to add new tiles to the Android home screen top bar.

One was a "Wi-Fi" tile, while other improved tiles were for "Mobile data",
"Internet", "Airplane mode", "NFC" and an improved "Bluetooth" tile.

While adding improved tiles to the top swipe of an Android home screen is
probably useful (especially perhaps the improved "Mobile data" tile), when
I added the improved "Wi-Fi" tile, it doesn't do anything that the old
original "Wi-Fi" tile didn't do, so all that effort turned out ineffective.

All I want is a shortcut that connects to a known access point, so I'll
keep looking as it shouldn't be this hard to do something that obvious.

Arno Welzel

2024-09-18 06:52:09 UTC

No, since user Apps are not allowed to connect to networks, only the
system itself or "system" apps which got provided by Google as part of
Android or the phone manufacturer can do this.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-18 15:40:56 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
All I want is to put a shortcut on my home screen that connects to a known
access point bssid/ssid pairing, which should be simple to create, right?

No, since user Apps are not allowed to connect to networks, only the
system itself or "system" apps which got provided by Google as part of
Android or the phone manufacturer can do this.

Thank you for that explanation of why something so easy is harder to do.

It seems that the reason why this is so hard to do, where even the apps
that VanguardLH found can only either simply bring up the settings app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pw.wifishortcut or
they can only display the strongest locally available wi-fi access points
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.opengait.wifishortcuts
where the former doesn't require location services, but the latter does.

I can easily make an Android homescreen shortcut to the activity named
com.android.settings/com.android.settings.Settings$WifiSettingsActivity
but what I really want to bring up is an activity to a specific access
point BSSID/SSID pair such as "01:02:03:04:05:06/my-access-point-01".

Given a known BSSID/SSID to my own home access points, if anyone figures
out how to directly connect to them with a terminal command, let me know.

Carlos E.R.

2024-09-15 21:15:07 UTC

Have a look a what widgets your phone has. Look for the one named
"settings". Then you have to select what setting you want it to
activate. There is one named "internet" which is close but not what you
want.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-19 01:05:25 UTC

Post by Carlos E.R.

It seems only the Pixel has a widget that will automatically connect to a
known unique BSSID/SSID pair, but I have a Samsung, which doesn't have it.
https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/203734046/how-to-create-shortcut-for-hotspot-on-home-screen

Remember the home router is always set to not broadcast your BSSID/SSID
pair, which is prudent not for security but for privacy reasons since then
phones don't upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to Internet databases.

So two things are set which most people don't know why they'd set them.
(1) The home router is set to NOT BROADCAST your unique BSSID/SSID pair.
(2) The phone is set to NOT AUTO CONNECT to any known wi-fi access points.

Those are set for privacy.
Not for security.

Most people don't understand the difference, but the end result is if you
leave auto connect on the default setting, then your phone will constantly
shout out your unique BSSID/SSID pair everywhere you go in the world.

That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

Andy Burns

2024-09-19 07:52:08 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
It seems only the Pixel has a widget that will automatically connect to a
known unique BSSID/SSID pair

Even a pixel doesn't have a widget *that* specific.

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-29 22:53:19 UTC

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Enrico Papaloma
It seems only the Pixel has a widget that will automatically connect to a
known unique BSSID/SSID pair

Even a pixel doesn't have a widget *that* specific.

May I ask you for advice, since you seem to understand what is being asked.

If no app exists, that's fine - but the COMMANDS must be happening on the
phone, and therefore that series of commands must be known to somebody.

Do you have any advice as to how to find what those commands are to connect
to a known access point when that access point is hidden.

I would think the sequence of commands is similar to what happens when you
FIRST connected to that hidden access point, where you had to add
credentials, where all the variables are known, such as BSSID & passphrase.

Obviously I've googled, XDA Developers included, but I haven't found it
yet. Given that, do you have any suggestions for finding that information?

Maybe a "sniffer" of sorts that I can run on the phone (maybe wireshark?)
will identify the packets - but that doesn't tell us what the phone did.

What I need is to tie together the commands the phone does to connect to a
known AP such that it's a single tap instead of the normal 3 steps.

From the Android home screen, it's currently 3 steps in the worst case.
[1] Swipe down to expose the Wi-Fi tile (if Wi-Fi isn't turned on already)
[2] Longpress the Wi-Fi tile to turn it on (if it's not already turned on)
[3] Tap on the saved hidden WAP (which is set to not auto-reconnect)

It's still 3 steps even if the Wi-Fi is turned on.
[1] Swipe down to expose the Wi-Fi tile (even if Wi-Fi is turned on)
[2] Longpress the Wi-Fi tile to expose a list of saved hidden connections
[3] Tap on the saved hidden WAP (which is set to not auto-reconnect)

Using the Wi-Fi Shortcut app, you can reduce that to only two steps.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pw.wifishortcut
[1] Tap on Wi-Fi Shortcut to expose a list of saved hidden connections
[2] Tap on the saved hidden WAP (which is set to not auto-reconnect)

But I'm trying to reduce those two steps to a single step for efficiency.
Any ideas how to do both of those taps in a single tap for each known WAP?

Andy Burns

2024-09-30 08:04:29 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
If no app exists, that's fine - but the COMMANDS must be happening on the
phone, and therefore that series of commands must be known to somebody.
Do you have any advice as to how to find what those commands are to connect
to a known access point when that access point is hidden.

I did have a look at the APIs

<https://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/wifi/WifiManager>

But I couldn't find a straightforward call like

wm = getSystemService(WIFI_SERVICE);
wm.setWifiEnabled(true);
wm.connectToSSID("whatever");

It might require code like this

<https://gist.github.com/cp-radhika-s/74d2eb717bad62f39d28a8727708af9c>

Enrico Papaloma

2024-10-01 23:39:56 UTC

Post by Andy Burns

I did have a look at the APIs
<https://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/wifi/WifiManager>
But I couldn't find a straightforward call like
wm = getSystemService(WIFI_SERVICE);
wm.setWifiEnabled(true);
wm.connectToSSID("whatever");
It might require code like this
<https://gist.github.com/cp-radhika-s/74d2eb717bad62f39d28a8727708af9c>

Thanks for that link to the wifimanager developer reference.

This might be what is needed but it might only pick & not connect.
ACTION_PICK_WIFI_NETWORK
Activity Action: Pick a Wi-Fi network to connect to.

This might provide enough information about the connection to force it.
EXTRA_WIFI_INFO
The lookup key for a WifiInfo object giving the information about the
access point to which we are connected.

This might be misused to force the connection to a known bssid.
EXTRA_BSSID
The lookup key for a String giving the BSSID of the access point to which
we are connected.

BTW, I wasn't aware of a connect to multiple access points simultaneously.
WIFI_MULTI_INTERNET_MODE_MULTI_AP
Wi-Fi simultaneous connection to multiple internet-providing Wi-Fi networks
(APs) is enabled.

There's a lot to dig through. I'll start with these breadcrumbs to follow.
reassociate()
This method was deprecated in API level 29. a) See
WifiNetworkSpecifier.Builder#build() for new mechanism to trigger
connection to a Wi-Fi network. b) See
addNetworkSuggestions(java.util.List),
removeNetworkSuggestions(java.util.List) for new API to add Wi-Fi networks
for consideration when auto-connecting to wifi. Compatibility Note: For
applications targeting Build.VERSION_CODES.Q or above, this API will always
return false.

There is also a lot to dig through on the link for connecting to a Wi-Fi
connection which might not have internet.
https://gist.github.com/cp-radhika-s/74d2eb717bad62f39d28a8727708af9c

That code seems to be something that might work if I can create an app in
Android Studio to run it, then I'll see if I can tweak it after getting it
to work (if it works) as I'm not all that good with Android Studio yet.

Lots of homework for me to dig through. Thanks!

Andy Burns

2024-10-02 04:11:36 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
This might be what is needed but it might only pick & not connect.
ACTION_PICK_WIFI_NETWORK
Activity Action: Pick a Wi-Fi network to connect to.

I think the wifimanager only takes hints, rather than solid instructions.

Carlos E.R.

2024-09-19 08:06:13 UTC

Post by Carlos E.R.

No, I don't remember. You did not say this in your first post.
And no, my routers all are set too publish the SSID.

Should I say "Hello Arlen"? Now we can understand why your initial question.

You have a problem of your own creation.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arno Welzel

2024-09-28 11:39:29 UTC

Enrico Papaloma, 2024-09-19 03:05:

[...]

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Remember the home router is always set to not broadcast your BSSID/SSID
pair, which is prudent not for security but for privacy reasons since then
phones don't upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to Internet databases.

Why do you think, that the phone won't do this, when it is *connected*
to that SSID?

Post by Enrico Papaloma
So two things are set which most people don't know why they'd set them.
(1) The home router is set to NOT BROADCAST your unique BSSID/SSID pair.
(2) The phone is set to NOT AUTO CONNECT to any known wi-fi access points.
Those are set for privacy.
Not for security.

What has auto-connect to do with privacy if you are using your own WiFi
network?

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Most people don't understand the difference, but the end result is if you
leave auto connect on the default setting, then your phone will constantly
shout out your unique BSSID/SSID pair everywhere you go in the world.

Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?

Post by Enrico Papaloma
That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

With even "minimum skills"? How?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-28 13:10:43 UTC

Why do you think, that the phone won't do this, when it is *connected*
to that SSID?

Good question. I don't know the full answer but I suspect the correct
answer has a lot to do with the word "this" in your sentence.

What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

What you're saying, and which I agree may be happening, is if you grep the
packets emanating from the phone "during" a connection to your WAP, the
BSSID is likely being ping-ponged back and forth, hidden in those packets.

That's explicitly why I said a war driver can "see" your BSSID, but not a
"normal" user whose phone is simply configured for a default Google setup.

But I have auto-connect turned off, so the phone is not "looking" for any
WAP, and therefore once the phone is disconnected from that WAP, it stops
sending those packets containing the BSSID of the home router WAP.

Given that situation, I suspect the correct answer to your excellent
question is that the packets are fundamentally different when a phone is
"looking" to connect to a WAP versus when the phone "is" connected to it.

While I can't control other people's phones, they are set up by Google to
look for the "I'm here!" packet (which I'll call the "broadcast" packet).

And while I can't control nefarious stores like the Cannabis store or the
Pawn shop, they too are looking at the "Are you there?" packets I assume.

In my setup there is no "I'm here!" packet coming from my home router.
And in my setup there is no "Where are you?" packet coming from the phone.

What has auto-connect to do with privacy if you are using your own WiFi
network?

Most people don't understand a thing about wireless networking and how it
impacts their privacy, so I'm not surprised you don't know how it works.

I can't teach you a course in networking here, but the simplest way to
answer your question is to first patiently explain that most phones are set
to auto-connect to a known WAP if it sees it, and most routers are set to
broadcast the WAP's presence, but that's not the situation in my setup.

The router is set up to not broadcast the WAP's presence, which is done to
keep the phones that pass by the home from picking it up (by default).

The phone is set to connect to that "hidden network" but not to reconnect.
That's done to keep the Cannabis store from picking up my unique home WAP's
BSSID while I'm away from home. Together, it's three things for privacy.

[1] Home WAP set up as hidden network (it doesn't broadcast availability)
[2] Phone set up to connect to the hidden network (credentials are saved)
[3] But phone is also set up to never auto connect (it doesn't look)

I could skip step [2] above but that would be inconvenient in daily use.

Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?

It's basic stuff. Nothing I've said is incorrect so it's everywhere.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

With even "minimum skills"? How?

Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.

We didn't even get into MAC randomization where by default, newer phones
randomize any given access point connection MAC (set for life), and if you
tweak Developer options, Androids randomize the MAC on every connection.

Why do you think that is a fundamental part of Android privacy nowadays?

Carlos E.R.

2024-09-28 19:55:07 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
The phone is set to connect to that "hidden network" but not to reconnect.
That's done to keep the Cannabis store from picking up my unique home WAP's
BSSID while I'm away from home. Together, it's three things for privacy.
[1] Home WAP set up as hidden network (it doesn't broadcast availability)
[2] Phone set up to connect to the hidden network (credentials are saved)
[3] But phone is also set up to never auto connect (it doesn't look)

And this is why we told you that we do not need to tap anywhere to connect.

As soon as we get in range of home, the phone connects to it, very fast.

You did not explain in your first post what you were doing that is so
different from what people do. People do not need a home icon to tap to
connect to home WiFi. The phone is faster than humans in doing this on
its own, unless you do things to impede normal working.

And as you changed your name yet another time, we could not remember
what you do.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arno Welzel

2024-09-29 19:03:20 UTC

Why do you think, that the phone won't do this, when it is *connected*
to that SSID?

Good question. I don't know the full answer but I suspect the correct
answer has a lot to do with the word "this" in your sentence.
What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

In my sentence "this" means "upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to
Internet databases".

[...]

Post by Enrico Papaloma
But I have auto-connect turned off, so the phone is not "looking" for any
WAP, and therefore once the phone is disconnected from that WAP, it stops
sending those packets containing the BSSID of the home router WAP.

Yes, but as soon as you connect, this is not the case any longer. So
your *own* WiFi network will be known.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Given that situation, I suspect the correct answer to your excellent
question is that the packets are fundamentally different when a phone is
"looking" to connect to a WAP versus when the phone "is" connected to it.

The phone will automatically see any broadcasted SSIDs and connect to it
when *when* it knows that SSID. There is no need to broadcast anything
at all.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
While I can't control other people's phones, they are set up by Google to
look for the "I'm here!" packet (which I'll call the "broadcast" packet).
And while I can't control nefarious stores like the Cannabis store or the
Pawn shop, they too are looking at the "Are you there?" packets I assume.

You assume wrong. A WiFi router does not send any "are you here" packet.
It will usally just broadcast the SSID and all clients which know the
SSID might try to connect to it.

[...]

Post by Arno Welzel
What has auto-connect to do with privacy if you are using your own WiFi
network?

Just name a website where all this is explained.

[...]

Post by Arno Welzel
Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?

It's basic stuff. Nothing I've said is incorrect so it's everywhere.

So then it should be easy to name at least one of the websites which are
"everywhere".

[...]

Post by Enrico Papaloma
That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

With even "minimum skills"? How?

Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.

No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-29 22:30:51 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

In my sentence "this" means "upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to
Internet databases".

You seem to be intelligent in that you've looked up how it works,
so that's good as it's worth it for me to try to explain networking.

All of this information is on the Internet but you have to know what to
look for and you have to know what kinds of specific questions to ask.

The upload of your BSSID/SSID (only the unique BSSID matters) doesn't
happen from your phone so much as from everyone else's phone.

It also happens from your phone if you let Google do it.
But you have total control over that so it shouldn't do it.

Yes, but as soon as you connect, this is not the case any longer. So
your *own* WiFi network will be known.

You need to think about the situation at home being DIFFERENT from the
situation away from home - and you need to realize the situation is
DIFFERENT depending on how you set up your home router's access point.

In my situation, when I'm at home, the router is not shouting out the
access point BSSID so it's not being uploaded to Internet databases.

However, that means in my case, I need to either connect manually (entering
in the passphrase & SSID for example) every time I connect, or, I need to
press an existing saved network, which is set to not auto connect again.

From what I know of networking, in that case, the packets will certainly
show the BSSID but not in the broadcast sense - which is what the Internet
databases are obtaining from every Android phone that drives by your home.

Only wardrivers will see them, and that's something you can't prevent
directly, but randomizing every BSSID by access point (which Android now
does by default) and by every connection (which is set in Developer
options) goes a long way in preventing wardrivers making use of the BSSID.

You seem to be aware of this MAC randomization feature, which negates (we
hope) most of the threat from those wardrivers sniffing all the packets.

The phone will automatically see any broadcasted SSIDs and connect to it
when *when* it knows that SSID. There is no need to broadcast anything
at all.

Not when it's a hidden access point.

The good news is you seem to have subsequently looked up how networking
works, so you realize I have been saying correctly how it works all along.

Any phone not already set up for that hidden access point doesn't even see
that hidden access point - which is the whole point of making APs hidden.

As for your own phone, for convenience, your own phone is set to remember
the access point, but your own phone is also set to NOT auto reconnect.

Any other pairing settings will defeat the purpose as the router must be
set to hide the access point (to prevent upload into Internet databases,
whether or not you use "_nomap") and at the same time, your own phone is
usually set for convenience to "remember" that hidden access point
credentials, but to never automatically connect to it (which is what
prevents your phone from shouting out the "Are you here?" command when
you're at the local cannabis shop buying that classic bong of the 70s).

You do not have to set your phone to remember the hidden connection, but
then you'd have to enter your SSID & passphrase every time you get home.

You assume wrong. A WiFi router does not send any "are you here" packet.

Since I can tell you know how basic networking works at the highest level,
I think what's confusing you is there are DIFFERENT ways to set it all up.

Under a normal setup, with the router access point not hidden, and with the
phone set up to automatically reconnect to that known access point, your
router DOES advertise the availability of the "I'm here" packet.

That router "I'm here" packet is what most Android phones driving by your
house pick up and send to Internet databases (even if you append "_nomap").

Post by Arno Welzel
It will usally just broadcast the SSID and all clients which know the
SSID might try to connect to it.

Yes. I knew you understood the highest level of basic networking, which
everyone knows, which is that if you set your home router to not hide your
access point, then the router screams out "I'm here" to all the world.

The Android phones driving by your home use that "I'm here" packet to
upload your GPS location and unique BSSID to the Internet databases.

This happens whether or not you append "_nomap" or "_optout_" to the SSID.

This happens BECAUSE of two things, one of which is you allowed your router
to broadcast the "I'm here" packet, and the Android defaults allow the
phone to upload those "I'm here" packets into Internet databases.

On my setup, that does not happen.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
I can't teach you a course in networking here, but the simplest way to
answer your question is to first patiently explain that most phones are set
to auto-connect to a known WAP if it sees it, and most routers are set to
broadcast the WAP's presence, but that's not the situation in my setup.

Just name a website where all this is explained.

You didn't google first. And yet, nothing I've said has been wrong.

Post by Arno Welzel
Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?

It's basic stuff. Nothing I've said is incorrect so it's everywhere.

So then it should be easy to name at least one of the websites which are
"everywhere".

My fee to teach people who don't google, is $200 an hour.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

With even "minimum skills"? How?

Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.

No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.

This is tantamount to claiming I'm a liar - which - is an unsound
assumption for you since it's clear you didn't even google for it once.

First google it. Otherwise pay me my $200/hour.

Carlos E.R.

2024-09-30 07:00:27 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

...

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.

No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.

This is tantamount to claiming I'm a liar - which - is an unsound
assumption for you since it's clear you didn't even google for it once.

Post an exact google search string which produces the information.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
First google it. Otherwise pay me my $200/hour.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arno Welzel

2024-09-30 14:52:29 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

Please do not remove quote introductions, thank you!

[...]

Post by Enrico Papaloma
That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

With even "minimum skills"? How?

Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.

No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.

This is tantamount to claiming I'm a liar - which - is an unsound
assumption for you since it's clear you didn't even google for it once.

No, I do not say, that you are a liar. I just asked for *one* example
for a website with information about the things you talk about.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
First google it. Otherwise pay me my $200/hour.

Why should I Google for anything? I wont't find *exactly* what you are
referring to and in the end you will tell me that I found the wrong sites.

About payments - nope, I won't pay you to add sources for your own claims.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Carlos E.R.

2024-09-28 19:55:11 UTC

Post by Arno Welzel
[...]

Why do you think, that the phone won't do this, when it is *connected*
to that SSID?

What has auto-connect to do with privacy if you are using your own WiFi
network?

Because he hides his router SSID so that google doesn't map his WiFi to
his house⁽¹⁾. That way autoconnect doesn't happen. His phone has to
actively search for the home WiFi in order to connect to it.

(1) The phones of passerbys detect the SSID of the WiFis they hear on
the street, and google maps them. This is used so that a phone in the
world can know where it is by identifying the SSIDs in the vicinity. And
inside buildings, by identifying certain BT emitters. Some people
consider this an invasion of their privacy. And others, like our friend,
dislike that phones are passively listening and mapping locations and
that people do not massively disable this feature.

Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?

Post by Enrico Papaloma
That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

With even "minimum skills"? How?

He is Arlen :-)

He has mentioned those things many times, only interesting if you are
similarly minded. Very impractical, contrary to what he says. Like the
phone not connecting to the home router automatically and fast.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arno Welzel

2024-09-18 06:50:35 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Instead of waiting for the phone to find the network and connect to it,

How long to you have to wait? My phone usually connects within seconds
if a known WiFi network is in reach.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-18 15:40:18 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Instead of waiting for the phone to find the network and connect to it,

How long to you have to wait? My phone usually connects within seconds
if a known WiFi network is in reach.

How long is the wait? Forever.

Actually the wait is "forever and ever" because I have the wi-fi
auto-connect turned off for privacy reasons - as leaving auto-connect
turned on shouts out your home BSSID every few seconds everywhere you go.

While I'm not Hezbollah, hiding my cellphone and pager from the Israeli
Mossad, it seems prudent to set up a cellphone to not ID you every moment.

Alls a nefarious outfit has to do is sell their services to a company, say
Macy's or Nordstrom or Target or whatever, and tell that store that they
can uniquely track each customer's presence in every store, although they
often already do that with bluetooth trackers (so my bluetooth is off too).

I can easily make an Android homescreen shortcut to the activity named
com.android.settings/com.android.settings.Settings$WifiSettingsActivity
but what I really want to bring up is an activity to a specific access
point BSSID/SSID pair such as "01:02:03:04:05:06/my-access-point-01".

Given a known BSSID/SSID to my own home access points, if anyone figures
out how to directly connect to them with a terminal command, let me know.

VanguardLH

2024-09-18 19:07:49 UTC

Post by Arno Welzel
How long to you have to wait? My phone usually connects within seconds
if a known WiFi network is in reach.

You sure disabling auto-reconnect must be a global setting? I thought
you could go into the properties of a connectoid to decide if you want
that one to auto-reconnect, like the wifi hotspot in your home.

Without the password, what good is the broadcasted BSSID? Anyone can
drive by my house, but they're not getting in with the key. Yes, they
could break in, just like anyone with physical access to your AP or wifi
cable modem can alter its settings. If they have physical access,
they're already inside. I can wear a company badge on my shirt that
anyone can read, but that doesn't grant them access into the building by
just knowing my name off the badge.

You run open wifi hotspots to which anyone can connect without a
password?

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-19 00:59:42 UTC

Post by VanguardLH

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Actually the wait is "forever and ever" because I have the wi-fi
auto-connect turned off for privacy reasons - as leaving auto-connect
turned on shouts out your home BSSID every few seconds everywhere you go.

You sure disabling auto-reconnect must be a global setting?

I never said it was a global setting. It's set per access point.

Post by VanguardLH
I thought
you could go into the properties of a connectoid to decide if you want
that one to auto-reconnect, like the wifi hotspot in your home.
http://youtu.be/AEkwtEzYeAQ

Absolutely. Each wi-fi access point has its own setting for autoconnect.
But if you turn one off, you'll be turning them all off.

It makes no sense to turn one off and leave the other turned on.
That's like locking one door of your car but leaving the other unlocked.

Post by VanguardLH
Without the password, what good is the broadcasted BSSID?

There are a hundred ways to answer that but the simplest is that the BSSID
is like your Social Security Number. It's you. Only you. Nobody else. You.

Post by VanguardLH
Anyone can
drive by my house, but they're not getting in with the key.

Again, there are a hundred ways to respond to that but the simplest way is
for me to switch BSSID with your Social Security Number to make the point.

When you're home, your router screams out your unique social security
number and with that information, when you're home, you CONNECT to the AP.

The problem doesn't happen when you're home.
The problem happens ONLY when you're AWAY from home.

When you're away from home, your PHONE screams out your unique social
security number everywhere you go (it wants to connect to your router).

Every 5 seconds your phone screams out your unique social security number.
Do you really want EVERYONE who is around you to know your unique SSN?

To stop that, you have to turn off auto-connect for each access point.
(Replace "Social Security Number" with "BSSID" in the explanation above.)

Post by VanguardLH
Yes, they
could break in, just like anyone with physical access to your AP or wifi
cable modem can alter its settings. If they have physical access,
they're already inside. I can wear a company badge on my shirt that
anyone can read, but that doesn't grant them access into the building by
just knowing my name off the badge.
You run open wifi hotspots to which anyone can connect without a
password?

You don't seem to understand the problem doesn't happen at your home.
It's a matter of being tracked uniquely everywhere you go away from home.

I must stress that the problem happens when you are AWAY from home.
But only if you do not turn off auto-connect.

Which is why any sane person always turns off the wi-fi auto connect.

If you have auto-connect turned on, then your phone is screaming out your
unique BSSID everywhere you go, every few seconds, it screams it out again.

That makes it trivial for bad actors to track your every movement.
This is basic wi-fi stuff that you should already know (long ago).

What I'm trying to do is make the non-auto-connect connection simpler.

I want to do that by putting a shortcut on my home screen that will connect
only to the given unique BSSID/SSID pair that is my own wi-fi access point.

VanguardLH

2024-09-19 06:09:46 UTC

I thought you could go into the properties of a connectoid to decide
if you want that one to auto-reconnect, like the wifi hotspot in
your home.
http://youtu.be/AEkwtEzYeAQ

Absolutely. Each wi-fi access point has its own setting for autoconnect.
But if you turn one off, you'll be turning them all off.

That's surprising, plus it means disabling auto-reconnect is a global
action, not just on the connectiod being configured.

Without the password, what good is the broadcasted BSSID?

There are a hundred ways to answer that but the simplest is that the BSSID
is like your Social Security Number. It's you. Only you. Nobody else. You.

And anyone can guess a sequence of numbers to construct a social
security number. It really isn't that much of a secret. The BSSID is
more like the house number on the outside of your house or on your
mailbox: everyone knows what it is and where it is.

So, your objection is not that your home router advertizes it is at your
home, but a wifi hotspot you run on your phone identifies you're the
owner of that hotspot. Why are you running a wifi hotspot (tethering)
on your phone?

The BSSID is the MAC address of the radio *to* which your phone is
currently connected. BSSID is the unique identifier for a specific
access point within a wireless network, and used to distinguish between
multiple access points sharing the same SSID, and the SSID isn't yours,
either. The BSSID is the 48-bit MAC address of the wireless AP or
router used to make wifi connections. Are you toting around an wireless
AP or router for which you are worried others will discover its BSSID?

Every phone can ID your wireless AP or router, because of its SSID +
BSSID. That is not the same as identifying your phone which is the
purpose of IMEI in your phone to let carriers know you have permission
via account status to use their service.

For example, my desktop PC has wifi capability. Wifi is enabled;
however, it is not connected to my wifi cable modem. As a result, the
command:

netsh wlan show interfaces | find “BSSID”

doesn't find anything, because my desktop PC is not connected to any
wifi hotspot. I could connect, but then obviates the point of not
allowing auto reconnects to known hotspots, plus I prefer the CAT5 cable
connection to use Ethernet.

Do a test. Disconnect from all wifi hotspots. Use Ubuitities' WiFiman
or olgor's WiFi Analyzer to look for a BSSID (which is presented as the
MAC address of the hotspot to where your phone connected). You won't
find one. Connect to a wifi hotspot, like your wifi cable modem.
WiFiman will show the specs on the hotspot, like BSSID (as MAC address),
SSID, IP address, netmask, signal strength, etc. Now disconnect from
the hotspot. Yep, BSSID is gone, because you don't have a connect with
the hotspot to which a BSSID was assigned.

The BSSID does not follow around with your phone. It is the network
interface (48-bit MAC address) of whatever wifi hotspot to which you are
currently connected. At home, you'll see the BSSID of your wifi cable
modem. At Starbucks, it will be the BSSID for your phone's connection
to their wifi router. At the library, it will be their BSSID. When not
connected to any hotspot, there's no BSSID for you to get.

The BSSID doesn't track your phone. Your phone's IMEI tracks your
phone. Call your local police to find out if they're using CALEA
(Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement) or IMSI Catchers to
track your phone or calls by using IMEI, or by mobile phone number, but
that requires coercing a court to force a carrier to track your IMEI.
Your carrier, upon proper request, helps the cops track your phone or
calls. They also cooperate with lost phone location.

https://www.fcc.gov/calea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher
https://techreport.com/spy/spy-on-phone-with-imei/

No one cares about the BSSID of the hotspot to which you connect. The
hotspot itself can record its own history on who connected to it.

Take a look at:

https://wigle.net/
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=wigle&c=apps

Notice the BSSID is presented as a MAC address. It shows the SSID and
BSSID, but of what? Your phone? Nope, of the hotspot your phone found
when running their app on your phone. Their app and their maps show the
hotspots you *discovered*, not where was your phone (although they may
collect that info, too, but it's your choice).

There are many crowdsourced database where users runs apps to record
what hotspots they found (by SSID and BSSID), or where are the cell
towers to which they connected to their carrier (e.g., OpenSignal).

Your objection is the BSSID tracks your phone. Wrong. It is the MAC
address of the hotspots to which you connected, and EVERYONE connecting
to that same hotspot are getting the same SSID and BSSID from there.

Anyone can generate a sequence of numbers hoping it matches my social
security number. Yes, your wifi cable modem at home is broadcasting its
SSID and BSSID, but so is that house number painted on the side of your
home. It's up to you if you want to operate an open hotspot that anyone
can use. Most users incorporate password to operate a closed or private
hotspot. If they don't know the password, they aren't getting a wifi
connection. In the connection request, and before the connection is
permitted, yes, someone can get the BSSID of your home wifi router, but
how does that relate to tracking your phone? Just because your wifi
modem is sending its SSID + BSSID to any wifi device during a scan
doesn't tell anyone that your phone is actually at home connected to
that wifi router.

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-19 19:42:48 UTC

Post by VanguardLH

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Absolutely. Each wi-fi access point has its own setting for autoconnect.
But if you turn one off, you'll be turning them all off.

That's surprising, plus it means disabling auto-reconnect is a global
action, not just on the connectiod being configured.

You are correct the setting is NOT global (and I never said it was).

I think you misunderstood because of the way I said it, for which I
apologize. The setting is NOT global (as far as I'm aware).

You set it for each home access point that you will be connecting to.

However if you're going to set it for one access point, you would gain
nothing if you don't also set it individually for every home access point.

Post by VanguardLH

Post by VanguardLH
Without the password, what good is the broadcasted BSSID?

There are a hundred ways to answer that but the simplest is that the BSSID
is like your Social Security Number. It's you. Only you. Nobody else. You.

And anyone can guess a sequence of numbers to construct a social
security number. It really isn't that much of a secret.

I can tell you do not understand because you think there is a lookup.

There are many ways for me to explain it to you again, but since you don't
know how networking works, I'm going to keep the explanation very simple.

Suppose your phone shouted out the numbers corresponding to the MAC address
of DE:AD:BE:EF:CA:FE, which is 64 65 61 64 62 65 65 66 63 61 66 65 0A in
hex and which is 01100100 01100101 01100001 01100100 01100010 01100101
01100101 01100110 01100011 01100001 01100110 01100101 in binary, which is
how computers think.

Now suppose those 96 characters are unique to your home access point (which
they are, in fact) so your phone is shouting out those 96 unique binary
characters everywhere you go.

If the local pawn shop wi-fi sees that unique sequence of 96 characters
when you walk inside that store, and it sees the same unique sequence of 96
characters on Monday, Wednesday and Friday of next week, what's the chance
that those 96 unique characters EXACTLY correspond to exactly you?

99.9%, right?

Essentially, those 96 unique characters are you.
Or, at least those 96 unique characters are anyone in your home.

Post by VanguardLH
The BSSID is
more like the house number on the outside of your house or on your
mailbox: everyone knows what it is and where it is.

See above. It's 96 characters which are unique to you (well, unique to you
and your wife and your kids - essentially anyone who lives in your home).

Every time any person in your family visits the local drug apothecary,
their wi-fi knows that you're back. Or that they're back. Close enough.

Now High Ties Cannabis Store - Alexandria Ontario knows that you keep
visiting them, and (see below) they know EXACTLY where you live too!

You live at: 45.76604369976066 North, -74.56636474143123 West
(This is just an example to make the point of what your BSSID tells them.)

Post by VanguardLH
So, your objection is not that your home router advertizes it is at your
home, but a wifi hotspot you run on your phone identifies you're the
owner of that hotspot. Why are you running a wifi hotspot (tethering)
on your phone?

Again I don't think you understand networking because nobody talked about
hotspots (which make the problem even worse - but let's not go there).

Here we're talking about your own home router and your own phone connecting
to the access points which your home router has (which have unique BSSIDs).

Post by VanguardLH
The BSSID is the MAC address of the radio *to* which your phone is
currently connected. BSSID is the unique identifier for a specific
access point within a wireless network, and used to distinguish between
multiple access points sharing the same SSID, and the SSID isn't yours,
either. The BSSID is the 48-bit MAC address of the wireless AP or
router used to make wifi connections. Are you toting around an wireless
AP or router for which you are worried others will discover its BSSID?

This shows a little bit of comprehension where we both agree the BSSID is a
96-character unique-to-your-home-router number, where adding the non-unique
SSID as part of the pairing just makes positive ID of you much easier.

But the BSSID is unique enough without the SSID so we don't really need to
even discuss the SSID. The SSID just makes things worse for identification.

Note that there are butterfly hash tables of your BSSID/SSID/password on
the network, which is how they crack WPA-2, but again, let's not go there.

Post by VanguardLH
Every phone can ID your wireless AP or router, because of its SSID +
BSSID.

Wrong. If your router is not broadcasting your BSSID/SSID pair (again, the
SSID doesn't matter because it's the BSSID that matters), then no phone can
connect to it because that phone doesn't even see your BSSID/SSID pair.

Well, again, we can go deeper and talk about wardriving but a "normal"
phone used by a normal person can't see a BSSID/SSID pair unless your home
router constantly broadcasts it (which, I agree - routers do by default).

If the phone can't see the BSSID/SSID pair, then not only can it NOT
connect to it (unless you enter the SSID/security/passphrase in manually
yourself) but it can't upload your unique BSSID to the online databases.

Again, I mean a "normal" phone because a WiGle-configured phone with
WireShark or NetStumbler or other wardriving software can see it all.

Post by VanguardLH
That is not the same as identifying your phone which is the
purpose of IMEI in your phone to let carriers know you have permission
via account status to use their service.

When you go to the local marijuana shop on Monday, if your home router was
set up for privacy, then your phone broadcasted your unique BSSID of
01100100 01100101 01100001 01100100 01100010 01100101 01100101 01100110
01100011 01100001 01100110 01100101.

Worse, if you have more than one home access point, your phone broadcast
the unique 96-character BSSID of every one of your home access points.

Then, if you go back to that drug shop on 25 Main St S, Alexandria, ON
again on Wednesday, the same unique series of characters show up in their
wi-fi logs of 01100100 01100101 01100001 01100100 01100010 01100101
01100101 01100110 01100011 01100001 01100110 01100101.

Same thing happens on Friday, where 01100100 01100101 01100001 01100100
01100010 01100101 01100101 01100110 01100011 01100001 01100110 01100101
shows up again.

That's you.

01100100 01100101 01100001 01100100 01100010 01100101 01100101 01100110
01100011 01100001 01100110 01100101 is you (or a member of your family).

Not only is that you (or someone in your family), but they know where you
live (because Google already put that in the online Google database).

Post by VanguardLH
For example, my desktop PC has wifi capability. Wifi is enabled;
however, it is not connected to my wifi cable modem. As a result, the
netsh wlan show interfaces | find "BSSID"
doesn't find anything, because my desktop PC is not connected to any
wifi hotspot. I could connect, but then obviates the point of not
allowing auto reconnects to known hotspots, plus I prefer the CAT5 cable
connection to use Ethernet.

If you had your home router set to NOT BROADCAST the BSSID of 01100100
01100101 01100001 01100100 01100010 01100101 01100101 01100110 01100011
01100001 01100110 01100101, then it would be shouting it out constantly.

But your home access point is likely set up to not hide broadcast packets,
so what's happening instead is your unique BSSID of 01100100 01100101
01100001 01100100 01100010 01100101 01100101 01100110 01100011 01100001
01100110 01100101 is being uploaded daily by everyone driving by your house
to Internet databases, where they add your EXACT GPS location to that.

Notice this important fact, which is probably more complexity than you can
imagine but if I look up that unique BSSID in the Google online database,
it tells me your exact GPS location.

Now put that together with the fact that the same unique BSSID went to the
https://www.highties.ca/alexandria/ drug shop on Monday, Wednesday and
Friday, and I can tell you that YOU live at GPS location 45.76604369976066,
-74.56636474143123 and YOU went to that drugshop those days (or someone in
your family did).

You have to realize, the BSSID now tells them everything they need to know.
a. It points uniquely to you (or members of your family, close enough)
b. And it points to exactly where you live (the exact GPS coordinates)

Post by VanguardLH
Do a test. Disconnect from all wifi hotspots. Use Ubuitities' WiFiman
or olgor's WiFi Analyzer to look for a BSSID (which is presented as the
MAC address of the hotspot to where your phone connected). You won't
find one. Connect to a wifi hotspot, like your wifi cable modem.
WiFiman will show the specs on the hotspot, like BSSID (as MAC address),
SSID, IP address, netmask, signal strength, etc. Now disconnect from
the hotspot. Yep, BSSID is gone, because you don't have a connect with
the hotspot to which a BSSID was assigned.
The BSSID does not follow around with your phone. It is the network
interface (48-bit MAC address) of whatever wifi hotspot to which you are
currently connected. At home, you'll see the BSSID of your wifi cable
modem. At Starbucks, it will be the BSSID for your phone's connection
to their wifi router. At the library, it will be their BSSID. When not
connected to any hotspot, there's no BSSID for you to get.
The BSSID doesn't track your phone. Your phone's IMEI tracks your
phone. Call your local police to find out if they're using CALEA
(Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement) or IMSI Catchers to
track your phone or calls by using IMEI, or by mobile phone number, but
that requires coercing a court to force a carrier to track your IMEI.
Your carrier, upon proper request, helps the cops track your phone or
calls. They also cooperate with lost phone location.
https://www.fcc.gov/calea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher
https://techreport.com/spy/spy-on-phone-with-imei/
No one cares about the BSSID of the hotspot to which you connect.

Wrong.

The BSSId is not only unique to you (or to members of your family), but it
also tells anyone who knows how to look for it, where EXACTLY you live.

Post by VanguardLH
The
hotspot itself can record its own history on who connected to it.
https://wigle.net/
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=wigle&c=apps
Notice the BSSID is presented as a MAC address. It shows the SSID and
BSSID, but of what? Your phone? Nope, of the hotspot your phone found
when running their app on your phone. Their app and their maps show the
hotspots you *discovered*, not where was your phone (although they may
collect that info, too, but it's your choice).
There are many crowdsourced database where users runs apps to record
what hotspots they found (by SSID and BSSID), or where are the cell
towers to which they connected to their carrier (e.g., OpenSignal).
Your objection is the BSSID tracks your phone. Wrong. It is the MAC
address of the hotspots to which you connected, and EVERYONE connecting
to that same hotspot are getting the same SSID and BSSID from there.
Anyone can generate a sequence of numbers hoping it matches my social
security number. Yes, your wifi cable modem at home is broadcasting its
SSID and BSSID, but so is that house number painted on the side of your
home. It's up to you if you want to operate an open hotspot that anyone
can use. Most users incorporate password to operate a closed or private
hotspot. If they don't know the password, they aren't getting a wifi
connection. In the connection request, and before the connection is
permitted, yes, someone can get the BSSID of your home wifi router, but
how does that relate to tracking your phone? Just because your wifi
modem is sending its SSID + BSSID to any wifi device during a scan
doesn't tell anyone that your phone is actually at home connected to
that wifi router.

I don't think I can teach you basic networking over the Internet so you're
just going to have to look up what a phone needs to upload your BSSID and
GPS (and a few other things) to the Google (and other) online databases.

You also need to understand how networking works when the broadcast is not
hidden (in which case your exactly location is uploaded to all these dbs).

And you need to understand how that does not happen when the broadcast is
hidden (which is similar, but not the same as adding "_nomap" to the SSID).

You do NOT understand any of that, so you can't "lecture" me because I knew
twenty years ago what you still do not know now about BSSID in networking.

Do you want me to give you a reference, or can you look up on your own what
happens when your BSSID is uploaded to Google/Wigle/Mozilla/etc databases?

It means this:
a. Your BSSID points uniquely to you (or members of your family) and
b. Your BSSID points to exactly where you live (the exact GPS coordinates)!

If you walk into my shop, I will not only know that you've been there
before and when, but I will also know exactly where you live.

But, as you said, unless I add other information (like credit card
transactions at my drug store or camera identification), I won't know who
you are.

I just know every time you go anywhere and I know exactly where you live.

Chris

2024-09-22 08:29:02 UTC

Post by VanguardLH
That is not the same as identifying your phone which is the
purpose of IMEI in your phone to let carriers know you have permission
via account status to use their service.

Your phone will broadcast *all* WAPs that you've ever connected to (and not
removed). There's no way for the shop - even if they cared - to identify
which WAP is your home one. Even if they had a global database look-up of
all BSSIDs and geographical addresses. With the exception of if you only
ever connect to a single WAP which is your home.

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-23 04:11:52 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Worse, if you have more than one home access point, your phone broadcast
the unique 96-character BSSID of every one of your home access points.

These are all valid points, as networking isn't something we can guess at.

Everything depends on how we set up our home router & how we set up our
phone, where mine isn't likely set up like yours is set up - but that's
because I know that every phone that passes by most houses is uploading its
BSSID & GPS location (among other things) to Google's public database.

That's how most people set up their home routers (by default).

Note that upload to Google's servers by every phone passing most homes
happens even if people append "_nomap" to the home router SSID (but let's
not go there as that just adds another level of unintuitive complexity).

The fact is most Android phones are set up, by default, to upload to
Google's public databases every BSSID (with GPS location) that it sees.

So we can safely assume your unique BSSID & GPS location is already easily
accessible by any person who knows how to access that public database.

And, we can just as safely assume that my unique BSSID is NOT in that db.

Do we agree on that as a basic starting point.
a. Your unique BSSID is in the public database as is your GPS location.
b. Mine is not.

That's just a basic starting point, but do we at least agree on that yet?

Chris

2024-09-23 14:11:16 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Worse, if you have more than one home access point, your phone broadcast
the unique 96-character BSSID of every one of your home access points.

[snip]

Post by Enrico Papaloma
So we can safely assume your unique BSSID & GPS location is already easily
accessible by any person who knows how to access that public database.

And exactly who can access this "public" database?

People can also see my house on google maps or see my address in the phone
book. Certain officials can also get my name and address for official
reasons, like electioneering.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
And, we can just as safely assume that my unique BSSID is NOT in that db.

Maybe, maybe not. How would you even know?

Regardless, neither your house nor your address is secret information.

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Do we agree on that as a basic starting point.
a. Your unique BSSID is in the public database as is your GPS location.
b. Mine is not.
That's just a basic starting point, but do we at least agree on that yet?

Possibly, but you've completely missed my point. Your BSSID doesn't
intrinsically identify you and given any broadcast includes all WAPs it's
impractical/impossible to identify your home (or mine) from a device's
broadcast.

At best, all someone can do is say that your device has been seen on this
network before. They won't be able to say that this device belongs to Arlen
who lives at 123 Acacia Avenue. A specialist with legal authority and a lot
more information gathered from elsewhere *might*.

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-23 15:34:31 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
So we can safely assume your unique BSSID & GPS location is already easily
accessible by any person who knows how to access that public database.

And exactly who can access this "public" database?

Everyone. Anywhere. Anytime.

They know everywhere you go, even if you dig a tunnel and emerge on the
other side of the border, your phone screams out your unique BSSID &
exactly where you live if you leave the phone & router at the defaults.

https://support.google.com/maps/answer/1725632
https://www.osintcurio.us/2019/01/15/tracking-all-the-wifi-things/
https://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2013/posters/Muhammad_Naveed.pdf

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to help you, it's too much for me to
teach networking in a thread if you don't bother to look anything up 1st.
https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/geolocation/requests-geolocation

Before you respond, may I ask you to just google what happened only a few
months ago with the Apple database - where it found to be completely open.

Tens, hundreds, and thousands of unique BSSID/GPS locations are handed out
by the Apple database without anyone even needing any credentials at all.

https://cybernews.com/privacy/apple-beams-wifi-location-data-privacy-risk/
https://www.darkreading.com/endpoint-security/apple-geolocation-api-exposes-wi-fi-access-points-worldwide
https://www.techzine.eu/blogs/security/122122/how-apples-location-api-gives-away-wi-fi-network-data-worldwide/

The Google database used to be wide open to everyone, and then they added a
free tracking key, which is still wide open but you have to register first.

https://usa.kaspersky.com/blog/wps-router-geolocation/30283/
https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/researchers-probe-googles-geolocation-database/
https://dev.to/higordiego/discover-how-google-can-locate-your-residence-just-through-your-wi-fi-router-250m

Post by Chris
People can also see my house on google maps or see my address in the phone
book. Certain officials can also get my name and address for official
reasons, like electioneering.

As much as I'd like to teach you basic networking over the Internet, you
have to look some things up before you make claims for me to then debunk.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/android-map-reveals-router-location_n_853214
https://www.techzine.eu/news/security/54130/malware-uses-wifi-bssid-to-identify-victims/
https://www.darkreading.com/endpoint-security/apple-geolocation-api-exposes-wi-fi-access-points-worldwide

Post by Enrico Papaloma
And, we can just as safely assume that my unique BSSID is NOT in that db.

Maybe, maybe not. How would you even know?

Again, I'd love to teach you basic networking but my fee is $200 an hour.

It's published how to access the public BSSID/GPS databases if you look.
https://github.com/GONZOsint/geowifi

There isn't anything I've explained which isn't all over the Internet since
it's just basic networking that I'm trying to help you better understand.

https://www.darkreading.com/cyber-risk/google-wardriving-how-engineering-trumped-privacy
https://blog.ouseful.info/2016/01/27/looking-up-the-physical-location-of-your-wifi-router/
https://www.howtogeek.com/788837/your-wi-fi-info-is-in-google-and-microsofts-databases-should-you-care/

Post by Chris
Regardless, neither your house nor your address is secret information.

I'm trying to help you understand that your phone screams out not only your
unique BSSID but the GPS location of that home WAP, everywhere you go, even
if you travel to Ankara hiding under an overcoat, umbrella and fedora.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/apr/25/google-router-map-exposed
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2024/05/why-your-wi-fi-router-doubles-as-an-apple-airtag/
https://blog.gl-inet.com/preventive-actions-to-safeguard-glinet-users-from-bssid-based-location-tracking/

As much as I'd like to continue to explain to you the very basics of
networking, you need to click on a few links before saying such things.

https://academic.oup.com/idpl/article/1/3/149/688705
https://www.cs.umd.edu/~dml/papers/wifi-surveillance-sp24.pdf
https://epic.org/googles-location-data-policy-update-why-users-need-more-than-pinkie-promises-to-protect-their-most-sensitive-information/

Post by Chris
At best, all someone can do is say that your device has been seen on this
network before. They won't be able to say that this device belongs to Arlen
who lives at 123 Acacia Avenue. A specialist with legal authority and a lot
more information gathered from elsewhere *might*.

I can't try any harder or more sincerely to explain to you how the basic
networking works on the phone with your home WAP unique BSSID & location.

Maybe you can read some of the cites on the net to get a bit of background?

https://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2013/posters/Muhammad_Naveed.pdf
https://businesslawtoday.org/2019/03/power-place-geolocation-tracking-privacy/
https://community.absolute.com/s/article/Update-Google-Maps-WiFi-Positioning-Database

Of course, none of this happens if you change your phone & router defaults.

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-23 04:32:25 UTC

Post by VanguardLH
That is not the same as identifying your phone which is the
purpose of IMEI in your phone to let carriers know you have permission
via account status to use their service.

Again, you show an understanding of networking details which is very good.

I just checked my phone by looking in Settings > Connections > (then long
pressing on the existing Wi-Fi connection) > (then tapping the three dots
at the top right of the screen) > Advanced Settings > Manage Networks >
where that lists all recent wireless access points that I've connected to.

There are a good dozen, but they all say "Auto reconnect turned off".
Which means the unique BSSID is not broadcast the way my phone is set up.

However, I'm well aware most people have every Wi-Fi access point they've
ever connected to set up to automatically re-connect (if it's seen again).

Which is the common (default) setup that you are trying to explain to me.

That means most people do broadcast all wireless access point unique BSSIDs
(let's ignore the non-unique SSID for now) everywhere they go, just as you
said they would.

But not me.

Do we agree on that as a basic starting point.
a. Your phone broadcasts the unique BSSIDs of every WAP you connected to.
b. Mine does not.

That's just a basic starting point, but do we at least agree on that yet?

Arno Welzel

2024-09-28 11:40:16 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
Instead of waiting for the phone to find the network and connect to it,

How long to you have to wait? My phone usually connects within seconds
if a known WiFi network is in reach.

Then live with the consequences.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-28 13:17:54 UTC

Post by Arno Welzel
Then live with the consequences.

You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.

The consequences is it takes more than a single tap to connect to a hidden
home WAP where the goal of this thread is to reduce that to a single tap.

What I'm seeking is a shortcut that connects to any given access point.

That shouldn't be hard to do - but I don't know how to do it. Do you?

Carlos E.R.

2024-09-28 20:08:07 UTC

Post by Arno Welzel
Then live with the consequences.

You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.
The consequences is it takes more than a single tap to connect to a hidden
home WAP where the goal of this thread is to reduce that to a single tap.
What I'm seeking is a shortcut that connects to any given access point.
That shouldn't be hard to do - but I don't know how to do it. Do you?

Nobody needs it, only you — because of your choices. You are of course
welcomed to your choices, but they have consequences. :-)

So, learn how to program for Android, and create yourself that
application. It is the only thing you can do. Or convince some
programmer to create it.

I could suggest that there are personalization/customization apps. You
tap the phone to a sticker on your door frame; the phone reads it by NFC
(which you have to keep activated for this to work), and on sensing the
"HOME" sticker it automatically customizes the phone. Anything should be
possible, like powering up the WiFi radio and connecting to it.

But you will not like having the NFC active full or most time.

I also long ago mentioned to you an application, that worked well on
Android 2, that would customize the phone depending on location. This
app stopped working that well in later Android versions because user
apps can not switch on/off the Wifi radio.

Pity.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arno Welzel

2024-09-29 19:06:44 UTC

Post by Arno Welzel
Then live with the consequences.

You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.

No, just inconvinient.

Quote: "is there a way to make a home screen icon to quickly connect to
a definite wi-fi network ap (without using the settings)?"

No - there is not. You have to live with that.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma

2024-09-29 22:32:40 UTC

Post by Enrico Papaloma
You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.

No, just inconvinient.
Quote: "is there a way to make a home screen icon to quickly connect to
a definite wi-fi network ap (without using the settings)?"
No - there is not. You have to live with that.

Most of this thread was explaining basic networking to people who refuse to
google anything that they're unaware of - which is a waste of our time.

To explain basic networking to people who refuse to google it, my fee is
$200 per hour, but this thread wasn't intended to explain basic networking.

There were two parts to the original question, one of which we found
doesn't exist, but the other MUST exist - which is to figure out the
commands that connect to a given known WAP, and bundle that up.

I'm sure an app can be written to do that, since everything is hard coded,
but I don't have the skills to write that app.

Which is why I was hoping there would be an app to do it but there's not.

That question left of how to bundle the commands into an app or shortcut
needs someone with better networking skills than any of us possess.

I'll ask over in some wifi networking forums if experts know the sequence
of events that are required for Android to connect to a known WAP.

Thank you all very much for all your time and help in answering this!
You guys are great!

I probably won't respond further unless it's about those commands as most
of this thread was defending basic networking that I thought everyone knew.

But thank you all for your assistance as you helped me hone the direction I
must go to solve the problem - which is to find the sequence of commands.

Arno Welzel

2024-09-30 14:54:43 UTC