Thumbnails, and what creates them.

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:46:23 -0500, "Alan K."

Thumbnails, and what creates them.
I have a lot of pictures on my Android phone, and I copy them all to my
laptop, and I copy all of them to my backup drive.
In
c:\users\[me]\appdata\roaming\MyPhoneExplorer\XiaomiRedmiNote8Pro[bunch
of numbers]\thumbnailcache\sdcard\DCIM, I have 5 entries, 4 created
today 3 of which are of photos I viewed today (and maybeeee the other
one?), and one created in April of a photo I viewed today.
This implies, iiuc, that windows creates the thumbnail when I do
something, view the picture in any vieweer? Some viewers?
At any rate, the thumbnail is used mostly, or entirely??, when using a
file manager that displays the thumbnails, right?
So I don't have to worry about copying them to a final location, and in
fact I can delete them all, right? If I ever need one, Windows will
recreate it????

Thumbnails will be recreated as needed if deleted at anytime. The only downside is the need to
remake them.

Thanks. It was disturbing because the file name is the same and it took
me a while to see that it was in a thumbnail directory. I thought I had
failed to copy all my photos from the phone to the laptop, and unrelated
to thumbnails, later on I found out that was true. Most of my pictures
were in external storage but over 100 were in internal storage and I
think I had never copied them from the phone.

I've been using MyPhoneExlorer to both connect the phone and to copy
from it, and I have to compare the source and dest each time to see what
to copy, but maybe all I need to do is plug the phone into a USB port
and use any of the Windows-based backup programs that don't copy what's
already copied. Like robocopy or xxcopy.

[Paul]

Post by micky
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:46:23 -0500, "Alan K."

Thumbnails, and what creates them.
I have a lot of pictures on my Android phone, and I copy them all to my
laptop, and I copy all of them to my backup drive.
In
c:\users\[me]\appdata\roaming\MyPhoneExplorer\XiaomiRedmiNote8Pro[bunch
of numbers]\thumbnailcache\sdcard\DCIM, I have 5 entries, 4 created
today 3 of which are of photos I viewed today (and maybeeee the other
one?), and one created in April of a photo I viewed today.
This implies, iiuc, that windows creates the thumbnail when I do
something, view the picture in any vieweer? Some viewers?
At any rate, the thumbnail is used mostly, or entirely??, when using a
file manager that displays the thumbnails, right?
So I don't have to worry about copying them to a final location, and in
fact I can delete them all, right? If I ever need one, Windows will
recreate it????

Thumbnails will be recreated as needed if deleted at anytime. The only downside is the need to
remake them.

Thanks. It was disturbing because the file name is the same and it took
me a while to see that it was in a thumbnail directory. I thought I had
failed to copy all my photos from the phone to the laptop, and unrelated
to thumbnails, later on I found out that was true. Most of my pictures
were in external storage but over 100 were in internal storage and I
think I had never copied them from the phone.
I've been using MyPhoneExlorer to both connect the phone and to copy
from it, and I have to compare the source and dest each time to see what
to copy, but maybe all I need to do is plug the phone into a USB port
and use any of the Windows-based backup programs that don't copy what's
already copied. Like robocopy or xxcopy.

The phone doesn't have a drive letter (meaning it is MTP and
not USB Mass Storage type).

Your phone is meant to be a puzzle. Mission accomplished.

*******

https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/250944/how-to-make-a-full-local-backup-of-my-phone

"There is no method to make a full backup of android smartphones.
It is always only a partial backup"

https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/226573/adb-pull-stops-after-first-error

It's the stuff nightmares are made of.

Paul

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 21:50:37 -0500, Paul

Post by Paul

Post by micky
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:46:23 -0500, "Alan K."

Thumbnails, and what creates them.
I have a lot of pictures on my Android phone, and I copy them all to my
laptop, and I copy all of them to my backup drive.
In
c:\users\[me]\appdata\roaming\MyPhoneExplorer\XiaomiRedmiNote8Pro[bunch
of numbers]\thumbnailcache\sdcard\DCIM, I have 5 entries, 4 created
today 3 of which are of photos I viewed today (and maybeeee the other
one?), and one created in April of a photo I viewed today.
This implies, iiuc, that windows creates the thumbnail when I do
something, view the picture in any vieweer? Some viewers?
At any rate, the thumbnail is used mostly, or entirely??, when using a
file manager that displays the thumbnails, right?
So I don't have to worry about copying them to a final location, and in
fact I can delete them all, right? If I ever need one, Windows will
recreate it????

Thumbnails will be recreated as needed if deleted at anytime. The only downside is the need to
remake them.

Thanks. It was disturbing because the file name is the same and it took
me a while to see that it was in a thumbnail directory. I thought I had
failed to copy all my photos from the phone to the laptop, and unrelated
to thumbnails, later on I found out that was true. Most of my pictures
were in external storage but over 100 were in internal storage and I
think I had never copied them from the phone.
I've been using MyPhoneExlorer to both connect the phone and to copy
from it, and I have to compare the source and dest each time to see what
to copy, but maybe all I need to do is plug the phone into a USB port
and use any of the Windows-based backup programs that don't copy what's
already copied. Like robocopy or xxcopy.

The phone doesn't have a drive letter

Aha. I never noticed that. Or maybe I was confusing the phone with the
external usb drive. After all, they both plug in.

Post by Paul
(meaning it is MTP and
not USB Mass Storage type).
Your phone is meant to be a puzzle. Mission accomplished.

Indeed.

Post by Paul
*******
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/250944/how-to-make-a-full-local-backup-of-my-phone
"There is no method to make a full backup of android smartphones.
It is always only a partial backup"
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/226573/adb-pull-stops-after-first-error
It's the stuff nightmares are made of.
Paul

[Bob Martin]

Post by Paul

Post by micky
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:46:23 -0500, "Alan K."

Thumbnails, and what creates them.
I have a lot of pictures on my Android phone, and I copy them all to my
laptop, and I copy all of them to my backup drive.
In
c:\users\[me]\appdata\roaming\MyPhoneExplorer\XiaomiRedmiNote8Pro[bunch
of numbers]\thumbnailcache\sdcard\DCIM, I have 5 entries, 4 created
today 3 of which are of photos I viewed today (and maybeeee the other
one?), and one created in April of a photo I viewed today.
This implies, iiuc, that windows creates the thumbnail when I do
something, view the picture in any vieweer? Some viewers?
At any rate, the thumbnail is used mostly, or entirely??, when using a
file manager that displays the thumbnails, right?
So I don't have to worry about copying them to a final location, and in
fact I can delete them all, right? If I ever need one, Windows will
recreate it????

Thumbnails will be recreated as needed if deleted at anytime. The only downside is the need to
remake them.

Thanks. It was disturbing because the file name is the same and it took
me a while to see that it was in a thumbnail directory. I thought I had
failed to copy all my photos from the phone to the laptop, and unrelated
to thumbnails, later on I found out that was true. Most of my pictures
were in external storage but over 100 were in internal storage and I
think I had never copied them from the phone.
I've been using MyPhoneExlorer to both connect the phone and to copy
from it, and I have to compare the source and dest each time to see what
to copy, but maybe all I need to do is plug the phone into a USB port
and use any of the Windows-based backup programs that don't copy what's
already copied. Like robocopy or xxcopy.

The phone doesn't have a drive letter (meaning it is MTP and
not USB Mass Storage type).
Your phone is meant to be a puzzle. Mission accomplished.
*******
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/250944/how-to-make-a-full-local-backup-of-my-phone
"There is no method to make a full backup of android smartphones.
It is always only a partial backup"
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/226573/adb-pull-stops-after-first-error
It's the stuff nightmares are made of.

I used to use TWRP to do a full backup of my Nexus phones.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on 4 Nov 2024 06:06:35 GMT, Bob Martin

Post by Bob Martin

Post by Paul

Post by micky
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:46:23 -0500, "Alan K."

Thumbnails, and what creates them.
I have a lot of pictures on my Android phone, and I copy them all to my
laptop, and I copy all of them to my backup drive.
In
c:\users\[me]\appdata\roaming\MyPhoneExplorer\XiaomiRedmiNote8Pro[bunch
of numbers]\thumbnailcache\sdcard\DCIM, I have 5 entries, 4 created
today 3 of which are of photos I viewed today (and maybeeee the other
one?), and one created in April of a photo I viewed today.
This implies, iiuc, that windows creates the thumbnail when I do
something, view the picture in any vieweer? Some viewers?
At any rate, the thumbnail is used mostly, or entirely??, when using a
file manager that displays the thumbnails, right?
So I don't have to worry about copying them to a final location, and in
fact I can delete them all, right? If I ever need one, Windows will
recreate it????

Thumbnails will be recreated as needed if deleted at anytime. The only downside is the need to
remake them.

Thanks. It was disturbing because the file name is the same and it took
me a while to see that it was in a thumbnail directory. I thought I had
failed to copy all my photos from the phone to the laptop, and unrelated
to thumbnails, later on I found out that was true. Most of my pictures
were in external storage but over 100 were in internal storage and I
think I had never copied them from the phone.
I've been using MyPhoneExlorer to both connect the phone and to copy
from it, and I have to compare the source and dest each time to see what
to copy, but maybe all I need to do is plug the phone into a USB port
and use any of the Windows-based backup programs that don't copy what's
already copied. Like robocopy or xxcopy.

The phone doesn't have a drive letter (meaning it is MTP and
not USB Mass Storage type).
Your phone is meant to be a puzzle. Mission accomplished.
*******
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/250944/how-to-make-a-full-local-backup-of-my-phone
"There is no method to make a full backup of android smartphones.
It is always only a partial backup"
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/226573/adb-pull-stops-after-first-error
It's the stuff nightmares are made of.

I used to use TWRP to do a full backup of my Nexus phones.

This sounds great, even a page for many Xiaomi phones -- it's the only
brand they mention -- including my model:
https://twrp.me/xiaomi/xiaomiredminote8pro.html

Post by Bob Martin
This device uses Android Verified Boot (AVB)
This means that installing TWRP or swiping to allow system modifications will prevent you from being able to boot. To bypass AVB's boot prevention, you will have to disable it or install a custom ROM that ships with disabled AVB.
fastboot --disable-verity --disable-verification flash vbmeta vbmeta.img
AVB should be now disabled on your device.

Scary. I don't mind fiddleing with the PC, but I feel like a newbie
with the phone.

Even "Fastboot Install Method (No Root Required)" has special

Post by Bob Martin
You will need the platform-tools from the Android SDK on your computer. Download the platform-tools as per your operating system.
Windows users will need proper drivers installed on their computer. You can try the simple FWUL adb/fastboot ISO or the Naked ADB drivers or the Universal ADB drivers if you don't already have a working driver installed
On your device, go into Settings -> About and find the Build Number and tap on it 7 times to enable developer settings. Press back and go into Developer Options and enable USB debugging.

I have done the line above.

Post by Bob Martin
adb reboot bootloader
You should now be in fastboot mode.
fastboot flash recovery twrp.img
fastboot reboot
Note many devices will replace your custom recovery automatically during first boot. To prevent this, use Google to find the proper key combo to enter recovery. After typing fastboot reboot, hold the key combo and boot to TWRP. Once TWRP is booted, TWRP will patch the stock ROM to prevent the stock ROM from replacing TWRP. If you don't follow this step, you will have to repeat the install.

Too much for me, but thanks for the offer. Non-Xiaomi people can
proably use it with no trouble

[Andrews]

Post by Bob Martin

Post by Paul
"There is no method to make a full backup of android smartphones.
It is always only a partial backup"
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/226573/adb-pull-stops-after-first-error
It's the stuff nightmares are made of.

I used to use TWRP to do a full backup of my Nexus phones.

A "full backup" is folly, in my humble opinion.
What you need is to "plan ahead" by being intelligent on a computer.

You have to understand how the operating system works.
Specifically you need to understand how the GUI works.

For Android, that GUI is your precious homescreen setup.
Right?

All you need to back up is your homescreen (which is a single file).
That's it.

Everything you care about is already in a single folder on external sd.

To restore your phone onto a new phone, all you do is two things:
a. Swap out the sdcard (formatted to a known volume ID) to the new phone
b. Restore the single file which is your homescreen to the new phone

I've done this many times.
No Internet involved.

No "full backup" needed as the apps all restore themselves in a single tap.

[Java Jive]

Post by Andrews

Post by Bob Martin
I used to use TWRP to do a full backup of my Nexus phones.

A "full backup" is folly, in my humble opinion.
What you need is to "plan ahead" by being intelligent on a computer.
You have to understand how the operating system works.
Specifically you need to understand how the GUI works.
For Android, that GUI is your precious homescreen setup.
Right?
All you need to back up is your homescreen (which is a single file).
That's it.
Everything you care about is already in a single folder on external sd.

NO, NOT EVERYTHING! See below.

Post by Andrews
a. Swap out the sdcard (formatted to a known volume ID) to the new phone
b. Restore the single file which is your homescreen to the new phone
I've done this many times.
No Internet involved.
No "full backup" needed as the apps all restore themselves in a single tap.

So how does that help me with this backup problem: How to transfer all
my WiFi connection settings from my old Android 7, note carefully the
Android version, Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 SM-T719 to a Pixel 8a.

I tried a number of general data transfer programs to copy stuff between
the two phones, but in the end got best results simply by copying
everything conventionally via my PC. However, the WiFi settings are not
stored in the data accessible from a PC.

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews
No "full backup" needed as the apps all restore themselves in a single tap.

So how does that help me with this backup problem: How to transfer all
my WiFi connection settings from my old Android 7, note carefully the
Android version, Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 SM-T719 to a Pixel 8a.

Hmm... good point. Good question. Excellent question, in fact.
It's my understanding that, on Android, just as the entire homescreen setup
is stored in a single file that you can backup & restore, all the Wi-Fi
settings on Android are also stored in a single file (AFAIK).
/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml

I haven't tried it, but a quick Google search shows this backup method:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=backup+wi-fi+settings+android+using+adb>
1. Turn on the Developer options menu on your old phone.
2. Turn on USB debugging and Rooted debugging on that old phone.
3. Connect that old phone to your computer & grant debug permissions.
4. Execute adb root on the computer
5. Execute adb pull /data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
6. Repeat steps 1 through 4 on the new phone, only use push, not pull.

I didn't try it though... if you do try it, let us know how it works out.

Post by Java Jive
I tried a number of general data transfer programs to copy stuff between
the two phones, but in the end got best results simply by copying
everything conventionally via my PC. However, the WiFi settings are not
stored in the data accessible from a PC.

Mostly, a home-user's computer/phone backup is three things, right?
a. GUI (e.g., homescreen on Android, accordion-menu tree on Windows)
b. data (e.g., map data, camera data, document data, etc.)
c. apps (Android Homescreen:Web:Firefox, Windows C:\Apps\Web\Firefox\)

Since my phone is mounted as a drive letter on Windows, the "backup" of the
data is done by the Windows copy command (although I could rcync it also).
<Loading Image...>

Copy those two things and you're done with the main backup, right?
Oops. Did I say two things? Yup. I did say only two things. Just two.
GUI and data are personal to the user, apps are not.

For apps, on both Windows and Android, the original installer is always
there (for every single version & subversion you choose to install it is).

And, for both Windows & Android, most (but not all!) apps and versions are
already archived for you somewhere on the Internet (although not always!).

So while both Windows and Android already automatically archive all your
installers, you "could" (if you wanted to) back up those installers too.

But on Android, once you've reloaded the homescreen backup (which is only a
single binary file), then just tapping the first time on the shortcuts
inside your homescreen folders installs the most current version of the
app. <Loading Image...>

If you're OK with that most current version, then you don't even need to
back up the versions you've installed previously (although I do that).

Also note installing APKs is as easy as sliding it from Windows to Android.
<Loading Image...>

[Andrews]

Post by Andrews
It's my understanding that, on Android, just as the entire homescreen setup
is stored in a single file that you can backup & restore, all the Wi-Fi
settings on Android are also stored in a single file (AFAIK).
/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
<https://www.google.com/search?q=backup+wi-fi+settings+android+using+adb>
1. Turn on the Developer options menu on your old phone.
2. Turn on USB debugging and Rooted debugging on that old phone.
3. Connect that old phone to your computer & grant debug permissions.
4. Execute adb root on the computer
5. Execute adb pull /data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
6. Repeat steps 1 through 4 on the new phone, only use push, not pull.
I didn't try it though... if you do try it, let us know how it works out.

Since I'm always a very helpful person, and even though my Samsung Galaxy
A32-5G baseband version is unrootable, I ran that test above for the team.
<Loading Image...>

C:\> type hosts.txt
The system cannot find the file specified.

C:\> adb pull /system/etc/hosts .\hosts.txt
/system/etc/hosts: 1 file pulled, 0 skipped. 0.0 MB/s (56 bytes in 0.003s)

C:\> type hosts.txt
127.0.0.1 localhost
::1 ip6-localhost

C:\> adb root
adbd cannot run as root in production builds

C:\> adb pull /data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
adb: error: failed to stat remote object '/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml': Permission denied

We're going to need another way to copy & restore that Wi-Fi xml file.

[Java Jive]

Post by Andrews

Post by Andrews
It's my understanding that, on Android, just as the entire homescreen setup
is stored in a single file that you can backup & restore, all the Wi-Fi
settings on Android are also stored in a single file (AFAIK).
/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
<https://www.google.com/search?q=backup+wi-fi+settings+android+using+adb>
1. Turn on the Developer options menu on your old phone.
2. Turn on USB debugging and Rooted debugging on that old phone.
3. Connect that old phone to your computer & grant debug permissions.
4. Execute adb root on the computer
5. Execute adb pull /data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
6. Repeat steps 1 through 4 on the new phone, only use push, not pull.
I didn't try it though... if you do try it, let us know how it works out.

Since I'm always a very helpful person, and even though my Samsung Galaxy
A32-5G baseband version is unrootable, I ran that test above for the team.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2jxYYsmM/adb-pull-wifi.jpg>
C:\> type hosts.txt
The system cannot find the file specified.
C:\> adb pull /system/etc/hosts .\hosts.txt
/system/etc/hosts: 1 file pulled, 0 skipped. 0.0 MB/s (56 bytes in 0.003s)
C:\> type hosts.txt
127.0.0.1 localhost
::1 ip6-localhost
C:\> adb root
adbd cannot run as root in production builds
C:\> adb pull /data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
adb: error: failed to stat remote object '/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml': Permission denied
We're going to need another way to copy & restore that Wi-Fi xml file.

Thanks for the attempt anyway. Another 'feature' of the system is that
my old tablet is encrypted, so, if I root it, all its old data will be
lost, thus anyway negating the whole point of rooting it to retrieve
that data.

It's a bastard situation reminiscent of the obstacle courses we had to
negotiate to get data off 8-bit microcomputers before IBM de facto
standardised floppy drive formats. Many micros could only store data on
tape, and if they could use floppies, such as the Apple II and the CBM
PET series, the low-level format of the floppy was unique, so you
couldn't just put the floppies in any other manufacturer's drive and
read them. I have related before in another place the saga of how I
never succeeded with the 2 or 3 Apple floppies that didn't have much if
any personal data on them, but eventually succeeded in copying all my
data off my PET floppies - from a starting point of a CBM PET drive
which had died from a mains spike, a similarly dead PET computer, a
couple of dead PET drives of a different model to mine which a kind soul
sent me from which I was able to salvage enough working CBM custom chips
to repair mine, power it with a spare PC PSU, build for my PC a Maplin
Parallel interface from a kit, program it to behave like the IEEE
interface used by the PETs, and so finally retrieve all the data off the
floppies that were still readable. Thank f*k we don't have to do that
sort of thing any more with computers, but we need the same sort of
interoperability with phones.

It was a minor victory in the perennial war against inanimate hostility
to be sure, though, after all that effort, it seemed a rather more major
one at the time. I wonder how much I've used that data since? Most
probably, a small amount of it a lot, much of the rest at least a
little. It probably took longer to retrieve it than it would have taken
to recreate it, but I can be stubborn bastard when the need arises, in
the immortal words from the opening scene of 'Saturday Night, Sunday
Morning': "Don't let the bastards grind you down!"

To get back on topic, not sure how to apply that to my WiFi settings
though ...

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive
To get back on topic, not sure how to apply that to my WiFi settings
though ...

Unfortunately, while Carlos & Dave Royal showed (on the Android ng) that
you can "share" Wi-Fi configuration QR codes for any given
currently-connected access point, I think Android requires rooting in order
to access the Wi-Fi config file (which is where settings are stored.

I have the best search engine on the planet but without using regular
expressions (which Java Jive can do) it found "too many" hits because
"Wi-Fi" in any search will catch too many things, even when filtered.
<https://skyica.com/appfinder/get/>

However, in Skyica App Finder I did see this supposed Wi-Fi backup app.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.swiftapps.swiftbackup>

It doesn't require root for most things, but it needs it for the Wi-Fi
backup (so it may be an Android limitation that you have to be rooted).

Sigh.

[Java Jive]

Post by Andrews

Post by Java Jive
To get back on topic, not sure how to apply that to my WiFi settings
though ...

Unfortunately, while Carlos & Dave Royal showed (on the Android ng) that
you can "share" Wi-Fi configuration QR codes for any given
currently-connected access point, I think Android requires rooting in order
to access the Wi-Fi config file (which is where settings are stored.
I have the best search engine on the planet but without using regular
expressions (which Java Jive can do) it found "too many" hits because
"Wi-Fi" in any search will catch too many things, even when filtered.
<https://skyica.com/appfinder/get/>
However, in Skyica App Finder I did see this supposed Wi-Fi backup app.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.swiftapps.swiftbackup>
It doesn't require root for most things, but it needs it for the Wi-Fi
backup (so it may be an Android limitation that you have to be rooted).

There's also this, which looked promising, but again, root required,
which I think must apply to them all, because I've seen it so often now:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.roamingsoft.manager

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive
There's also this, which looked promising, but again, root required,
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.roamingsoft.manager

Thanks for finding that app, which I didn't see because my default Skyica
App Finder filters are for "free" and "no ads" so it didn't show up.
<https://skyica.com/appfinder/get/>

I agree though, with you, that the "data" directory where the Wi-Fi
connections XML file is stored is inaccessible since Android 11
(according to the information on XDA Developers when I asked for you).

I don't know how these Samsung/Google apps do it given that information.
Maybe someone who knows how Android works can explain how they do it.

[Java Jive]

Post by Andrews

Post by Java Jive
There's also this, which looked promising, but again, root required,
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.roamingsoft.manager

Thanks for finding that app, which I didn't see because my default Skyica
App Finder filters are for "free" and "no ads" so it didn't show up.
<https://skyica.com/appfinder/get/>
I agree though, with you, that the "data" directory where the Wi-Fi
connections XML file is stored is inaccessible since Android 11
(according to the information on XDA Developers when I asked for you).

But this is Android 7.

Post by Andrews
I don't know how these Samsung/Google apps do it given that information.
Maybe someone who knows how Android works can explain how they do it.

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews
I agree though, with you, that the "data" directory where the Wi-Fi
connections XML file is stored is inaccessible since Android 11
(according to the information on XDA Developers when I asked for you).

But this is Android 7.

I assume you tried copying it already when I gave the commands necessary.

[Java Jive]

Post by Andrews

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews
I agree though, with you, that the "data" directory where the Wi-Fi
connections XML file is stored is inaccessible since Android 11
(according to the information on XDA Developers when I asked for you).

But this is Android 7.

I assume you tried copying it already when I gave the commands necessary.

The tablet, a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 model SM-T719, is not rooted, and I
strongly suspect that the rooting of it would destroy the very data that
I'm trying copy. Nevertheless, I'd be prepared to investigate the
possibilities, but, to root it, I'd need an auto-root file for it, and I
couldn't find one.

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews
I agree though, with you, that the "data" directory where the Wi-Fi
connections XML file is stored is inaccessible since Android 11
(according to the information on XDA Developers when I asked for you).

But this is Android 7.

I assume you tried copying it already when I gave the commands necessary.

The tablet, a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 model SM-T719, is not rooted, and I
strongly suspect that the rooting of it would destroy the very data that
I'm trying copy. Nevertheless, I'd be prepared to investigate the
possibilities, but, to root it, I'd need an auto-root file for it, and I
couldn't find one.

If Android 11 is when the Google securing of /data went into effect, then,
if we assume it was not in effect prior to Android 11, Android 7 should
work.

Why not try the commands?
They only take a second.

I had already provided the *exact* commands to run, from Windows to your
phone over USB so all you have to do is cut and paste. I even provided a
screenshot. I did a lot of work to help you. It might work on Android 7.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2jxYYsmM/adb-pull-wifi.jpg>

The implication is those commands worked prior to Android 11.

Unrooted.

[Java Jive]

Post by Andrews

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews
I agree though, with you, that the "data" directory where the Wi-Fi
connections XML file is stored is inaccessible since Android 11
(according to the information on XDA Developers when I asked for you).

But this is Android 7.

I assume you tried copying it already when I gave the commands necessary.

16:44:31 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe root

16:45:56 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe pull
/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
adb: error: remote object
'/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml' does not exist

16:46:09 D:\Temp>

There is a data directory visible in explorer under ...

/Internal storage/Android

... but adding that to the beginning of the path makes no odds, and in
fact trying to pull a file that I know exists, because I can see it in
Explorer, also fails:

16:54:31 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe pull
"/Internal
storage/Android/data/com.android.systemui/cache/lockscreen_capture_land.png"
adb: error: remote object '/Internal
storage/Android/data/com.android.systemui/cache/lockscreen_capture_land.png'
does not exist

Make of that what you will, remembering that I don't believe this device
is rooted, although the adb root command seemed to work.

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews
I assume you tried copying it already when I gave the commands necessary.

16:44:31 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe root

Thanks for running the suggested test!

I'm surprised that command didn't give an error as mine did on my unrooted
Android 13 Galaxy - but I do not know what "adb root" even does.

Running a search for what does adb root do this comes up
<https://duckduckgo.com/?va=d&t=hf&q=what+does+adb+root+do>

*Understanding adb shell su and adb root Commands*
<https://www.repeato.app/understanding-adb-shell-su-and-adb-root-commands/>
"the command adb root restarts the adb daemon with root permissions,
allowing you to execute ADB commands as root without entering the shell."

Since your "adb root" works, my suggestion is that you may be able to...
1. adb pull the WifiConfigStore.xml file from Android to Windows
2. Edit it on Windows any way you like
3. adb push that now-edited WifiConfigStore.xml back to Android

Post by Java Jive
16:45:56 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe pull
/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
adb: error: remote object
'/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml' does not exist
16:46:09 D:\Temp>
There is a data directory visible in explorer under ...
/Internal storage/Android
... but adding that to the beginning of the path makes no odds, and in
fact trying to pull a file that I know exists, because I can see it in
16:54:31 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe pull
"/Internal
storage/Android/data/com.android.systemui/cache/lockscreen_capture_land.png"
adb: error: remote object '/Internal
storage/Android/data/com.android.systemui/cache/lockscreen_capture_land.png'
does not exist
Make of that what you will, remembering that I don't believe this device
is rooted, although the adb root command seemed to work.

Since the word "apex" is in my original command, I suspect the location for
the Wi-Fi configuration XML file may have changed between the releases.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=where+is+android+WifiConfigStore.xml>

It may be that XML is located in different places per device or version.
*Dissecting the Android WiFiConfigStore.xml for forensic analysis*
<https://blog.digital-forensics.it/2024/02/dissecting-android-wificonfigstorexml.html>
"/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/.>

*How to reload WifiConfigStore.xml?*
<https://xdaforums.com/t/how-to-reload-wificonfigstore-xml.4545053/>
"adb push /data/misc/wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml"

Notice, as often occurs with Android, the WifiConfigStore.xml configuration
file can be in *different* locations depending on "something" we don't
know.

My advice is that since you can use the "adb root" command, that you can
almost certainly "adb pull" and "adb push" the WifiConfigStore.xml file.

You just have to find it first. :)

[Java Jive]

Post by Andrews

Post by Java Jive

Post by Andrews
I assume you tried copying it already when I gave the commands necessary.

16:44:31 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe root

Thanks for running the suggested test!
I'm surprised that command didn't give an error as mine did on my unrooted
Android 13 Galaxy - but I do not know what "adb root" even does.
Running a search for what does adb root do this comes up
<https://duckduckgo.com/?va=d&t=hf&q=what+does+adb+root+do>
*Understanding adb shell su and adb root Commands*
<https://www.repeato.app/understanding-adb-shell-su-and-adb-root-commands/>
"the command adb root restarts the adb daemon with root permissions,
allowing you to execute ADB commands as root without entering the shell."
Since your "adb root" works, my suggestion is that you may be able to...
1. adb pull the WifiConfigStore.xml file from Android to Windows
2. Edit it on Windows any way you like
3. adb push that now-edited WifiConfigStore.xml back to Android

Post by Java Jive
16:45:56 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe pull
/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml
adb: error: remote object
'/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/WifiConfigStore.xml' does not exist
16:46:09 D:\Temp>
There is a data directory visible in explorer under ...
/Internal storage/Android
... but adding that to the beginning of the path makes no odds, and in
fact trying to pull a file that I know exists, because I can see it in
16:54:31 D:\Temp>C:\Programs\Samsung\platform-tools\adb.exe pull
"/Internal
storage/Android/data/com.android.systemui/cache/lockscreen_capture_land.png"
adb: error: remote object '/Internal
storage/Android/data/com.android.systemui/cache/lockscreen_capture_land.png'
does not exist
Make of that what you will, remembering that I don't believe this device
is rooted, although the adb root command seemed to work.

[snip]
My advice is that since you can use the "adb root" command, that you can
almost certainly "adb pull" and "adb push" the WifiConfigStore.xml file.
You just have to find it first. :)

As far as I have been able to establish, it's just not there.

There is a command ...
<path>\adb backup
... which creates a backup of the phone or tablet on your computer.
However, the backup so created, called backup.ab, is a unique tar file
format that almost nothing else can read as is, though there are neat
workarounds as long as it is not encrypted; however, because my tablet
is encrypted, so is the backup, which means that the simple workarounds
don't work.

A whole Perl upgrade later, where the biggest problem was actually
uninstalling the previous version, to run a Perl script to extract the
contents resulted only in a message that it couldn't do anything with
this version 4, a version later than that for which it was written.

A whole Java upgrade later, where again the biggest problem was
uninstalling the previous JDK and JRE, finally extracted it, but it
seems to contain nothing useful that was not available already simply by
connecting the phone to the PC in the normal way.

There is a command ...
<path>\adb shell ls
... which lists the root, I presume, directory as ...
acct
bugreports
cache
carrier
config
d
data
default.prop
dev
dsp
efs
etc
file_contexts.bin
firmware
firmware-modem
fstab.qcom
init
init.carrier.rc
init.class_main.sh
init.container.rc
init.environ.rc
init.mdm.sh
init.qcom.bms.sh
init.qcom.class_core.sh
init.qcom.early_boot.sh
init.qcom.factory.rc
init.qcom.rc
init.qcom.sh
init.qcom.syspart_fixup.sh
init.qcom.usb.rc
init.qcom.usb.sh
init.rc
init.recovery.qcom.rc
init.rilchip.rc
init.target.rc
init.usb.configfs.rc
init.usb.rc
init.wifi.rc
init.zygote32.rc
init.zygote64_32.rc
knox_data
mnt
oem
persdata
persist
postrecovery.do
preload
proc
property_contexts
publiccert.pem
root
sbin
sdcard
seapp_contexts
sepolicy
sepolicy_version
service_contexts
storage
sys
system
tombstones
ueventd.qcom.rc
ueventd.rc
vendor
verity_key
... which allows the following batch command to be run ...
for /f "usebackq tokens=*" %A in (`<path>\adb shell ls`) do @if not
%A==proc <path>\adb pull /%A
... and I'm currently waiting for the /sys directory to complete, but a
search of those completed so far has found nothing of interest in the
others.

I think the truth is the same as with all the other attempts, because
the tablet is not rooted, the information I want is not available to me.

Scandalous, really.

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive
There is a command ...
  <path>\adb backup
... which creates a backup of the phone or tablet on your computer.
However, the backup so created, called backup.ab, is a unique tar file
format that almost nothing else can read as is, though there are neat
workarounds as long as it is not encrypted; however, because my tablet
is encrypted, so is the backup, which means that the simple workarounds
don't work.
A whole Perl upgrade later, where the biggest problem was actually
uninstalling the previous version, to run a Perl script to extract the
contents resulted only in a message that it couldn't do anything with
this version 4, a version later than that for which it was written.
A whole Java upgrade later, where again the biggest problem was
uninstalling the previous JDK and JRE, finally extracted it, but it
seems to contain nothing useful that was not available already simply by
connecting the phone to the PC in the normal way.

Actually they were there all along, which shows just how useless is
Windows Search, by contrast Textpad's Find in Files option found them.

So, the full procedure is:

1. <path>\adb backup

... creates backup.ab in the current directory

2. Install or update to the latest Java Runtime Environment,
currently 1.8.0_431:

https://www.java.com/en/download/help/download_options.html

3. Download Nelenkov's abe*.jar file:

https://github.com/nelenkov/android-backup-extractor
https://github.com/nelenkov/android-backup-extractor/releases/download/latest/abe-3e9a273.jar

Give the command (without the square brackets around the password, they
are merely a convention signifying that it is an optional parameter):

java -jar <path>\abe-3e9a273.jar unpack <path>\backup.ab
<path>\backup.tar [password]

The resulting tar file can be extracted by 7-zip. Search the extracted
files' contents for an SSID known to be on the device, mine were in:

\apps\com.android.providers.settings\d_f\flattened-data

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive
There is a command ...
   <path>\adb backup
... which creates a backup of the phone or tablet on your computer.
However, the backup so created, called backup.ab, is a unique tar file
format that almost nothing else can read as is, though there are neat
workarounds as long as it is not encrypted; however, because my tablet
is encrypted, so is the backup, which means that the simple
workarounds don't work.
A whole Perl upgrade later, where the biggest problem was actually
uninstalling the previous version, to run a Perl script to extract the
contents resulted only in a message that it couldn't do anything with
this version 4, a version later than that for which it was written.
A whole Java upgrade later, where again the biggest problem was
uninstalling the previous JDK and JRE, finally extracted it, but it
seems to contain nothing useful that was not available already simply
by connecting the phone to the PC in the normal way.

Actually they were there all along, which shows just how useless is
Windows Search, by contrast Textpad's Find in Files option found them.
1.    <path>\adb backup
... creates backup.ab in the current directory
2.    Install or update to the latest Java Runtime Environment,
https://www.java.com/en/download/help/download_options.html
https://github.com/nelenkov/android-backup-extractor
https://github.com/nelenkov/android-backup-extractor/releases/download/latest/abe-3e9a273.jar
Give the command (without the square brackets around the password, they
java -jar <path>\abe-3e9a273.jar unpack <path>\backup.ab
<path>\backup.tar [password]
The resulting tar file can be extracted by 7-zip.  Search the extracted
\apps\com.android.providers.settings\d_f\flattened-data

Should have added my thanks to all those who have helped along the way.

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive
Should have added my thanks to all those who have helped along the way.

We're all here to help each other - and to give back to the team.
We've been doing this for decades - as we're kind hearted helpful people.

Helping you has taught me things as I've never used "adb backup" myself.
Never even heard of it.

It's GREAT that you resolved the question of extracting (and restoring?)
Wi-Fi passwords on older Androids (which didn't lock WifiConfigStore.xml).

I'm trying to reproduce steps but I'm not sure the sequence on Android 13.

C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> adb backup
WARNING: adb backup is deprecated and may be removed in a future release
adb.exe: backup either needs a list of packages or -all/-shared

C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> adb --version
Android Debug Bridge version 1.0.41
Version 33.0.3-8952118
Installed as C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy\adb.exe

Looking it up, I see there is an Android backup-and-restore guide.
<https://github.com/eviabs/Android-Backup-and-Restore-Guide/blob/master/Android%20Backup%20and%20Restore%20Guide.md>
"An *.ab backup contains all your personal and hidden data of your app.
It doesn't necessary contain your local storage data (which is located in
your sd card). Make sure you copy by yourself the sd card content."

C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> adb backup -f myAndroidBackup.ab com.grindrapp.android
WARNING: adb backup is deprecated and may be removed in a future release
Now unlock your device and confirm the backup operation...
(My phone in another room popped up an unlock request, which I easily
accepted from Windows since I operate my phone at home from the PC.)

C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> dir myAndroidBackup.ab
11/08/2024 11:40 PM 47 myAndroidBackup.ab

C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> adb backup -apk -shared -all -f fullAndroidBackup.ab
(again the monitor dedicated to Android popped up an unlock request which
I accepted from the PC as I don't feel like looking for the phone)

It's taking a while... so moving on, here's how to restore apparently.

Single app backup (the app has to actually be installed already).
C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> adb restore myAndroidBackup.ab

(I'm still waiting for the all-apps-and-their-data backup to finish.)
The only thing is these are restoring "apps", not Wi-Fi settings, right?

So I'm confused (although the "settings" app is just another app too).
How does this backup/restore Wi-Fi configuration settings?

[Andrews]

Post by Andrews
How does this backup/restore Wi-Fi configuration settings?

Oops. Didn't see the Java jar stuff. Gonna try again...

But right now I'm waiting for the adb backup to finish.

It's taking a looooooooooong time but I have over 900 apps installed on my
phone (as I test apps against each other all the time) so it may take all
night.

Good think it's all being done from the PC while the phone is somewhere in
the room charging on a night table as I operate the phone from the PC.

[Andrews]

Post by Andrews
It's taking a looooooooooong time but I have over 900 apps installed on my
phone (as I test apps against each other all the time) so it may take all
night.

The adb full backup finished. It took around a half hour or so (I didn't
time it though) but it's not a small backup file, that's for sure...

C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> adb backup -apk -shared -all -f fullAndroidBackup.ab
C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy >dir *ab
Directory of C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy
11/08/2024 11:15 PM 10,589,970,522 fullAndroidBackup.ab
11/08/2024 10:40 PM 47 myAndroidBackup.ab

I have no idea (yet) what to do with that "full backup"; but it worked.
Does anyone have a working process to use these adb full backups?

And I still have to try the java stuff for the Wi-Fi passwords.

But every time I touch java on Windows, I have to install tons of crapware.
So I'm gun shy....

[Andrews]

Post by Andrews
Single app backup (the app has to actually be installed already).
C:\app\editor\android\scrcpy> adb restore myAndroidBackup.ab

Bear in mind, for those who don't already know it, Android *never* deletes
the actual installer that was used to install an app, so it's there.

You just have to find it.

Also, note it's far easier to manage Android from Windows than from the
phone (for so many obvious reasons, I won't even list them for you).

So let's assume we want a backup on Windows of osmand~ *and* its data.

First you have to find the package name if you don't already know it.
C:\> adb shell pm list packages | findStr /i "osmand"
package:net.osmand.plus

Then you have to find the location of the APK stored on your phone.
C:\> adb shell pm path net.osmand.plus
package:/data/app/~~k-jK7n2qHWcW_giNy6oVEA==/net.osmand.plus-6ws8wQWIkEi8vVgL5q3EdA==/base.apk

Then you can copy that APK manually if that's what you really want to do.
C:\> adb pull /data/app/~~k-jK7n2qHWcW_giNy6oVEA==/net.osmand.plus-6ws8wQWIkEi8vVgL5q3EdA==/base.apk

Since *every* stored APK on Android is named, "base.apk", rename it:
C:\> move base.apk net.osmand.plus_bck.apk

But nobody would copy an apk that way (unless they're writing scripts).
That's why they made all those free Android APK extraction tools.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.onyxbits.listmyapps>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jenos.shareapkfile>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=sk.styk.martin.apkanalyzer>

Now that you have the APK backed up, it's time to use adb's data backup:
C:\> adb backup -f net.osmand.plus_bck.ab net.osmand.plus
WARNING: adb backup is deprecated and may be removed in a future release
Now unlock your device and confirm the backup operation...

Now you have both the installer & the data on your Windows system:
C:\> dir *osmand*
11/09/2024 05:45 AM 146,644,539 net.osmand.plus_bck.apk
11/09/2024 05:50 AM 47 net.osmand.plus_bck.ab

Note that I'm not sure what is in that data ball of string since the help
for adb backup says you need to copy over some things manually from your
sdcard. I suspect that's the internal sdcard they were referring to since
some people don't have an external sdcard.

To find where sdcard information is installed, I will *guess* it's in the
information that is spit out with a query using adb. Maybe this query?
C:\> adb shell pm dump net.osmand.plus > net.osmand.plus_bck.txt

That file is over eight thousand lines long, so I'm not sure if it tells us
where the map data is stored & whether or not that's backed up.

Anyone know how to find the map data for osmand if it's stored on your
external sdcard? (Of course, you know where you put it - but this is for
general use where the user is backing up a device so they might not know.)

[Java Jive]

On 2024-11-09 01:01, Java Jive wrote:

In response to Andrews' comments, I think I need to clarify these. In
particular, the adb command given is probably wrong, because, after all
the attempts to uninstall and reinstall Perl and Java the actual command
I gave had fallen off the end of the DOSKey list, so I wrote it, late
last night, from memory. However, I got it from here and can now tell
that I must have misremembered it (312-314):

https://gist.github.com/Pulimet/5013acf2cd5b28e55036c82c91bd56d8

So the (corrected) full procedure is:

1. <path>\adb backup -all -f backup.ab

... creates backup.ab in the current directory

2. Install or update to the latest Java Runtime Environment,
currently 1.8.0_431:

https://www.java.com/en/download/help/download_options.html

3. Download Nelenkov's abe*.jar file:

https://github.com/nelenkov/android-backup-extractor
https://github.com/nelenkov/android-backup-extractor/releases/download/latest/abe-3e9a273.jar

4. Give the command (without the square brackets around the password,
they are merely a convention signifying that it is an optional parameter):

java -jar <path>\abe-3e9a273.jar unpack <path>\backup.ab
<path>\backup.tar [password]

5. The resulting tar file can be extracted by 7-zip.

6. Search the contents of the extracted files for an SSID known to be
on the device, mine were in:

\apps\com.android.providers.settings\d_f\flattened-data

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive
There is a command ...
  <path>\adb shell ls
... which lists the root, I presume, directory as ...
  acct
  bugreports
  cache
  carrier
  config
  d
  data
  default.prop
  dev
  dsp
  efs
  etc
  file_contexts.bin
  firmware
  firmware-modem
  fstab.qcom
  init
  init.carrier.rc
  init.class_main.sh
  init.container.rc
  init.environ.rc
  init.mdm.sh
  init.qcom.bms.sh
  init.qcom.class_core.sh
  init.qcom.early_boot.sh
  init.qcom.factory.rc
  init.qcom.rc
  init.qcom.sh
  init.qcom.syspart_fixup.sh
  init.qcom.usb.rc
  init.qcom.usb.sh
  init.rc
  init.recovery.qcom.rc
  init.rilchip.rc
  init.target.rc
  init.usb.configfs.rc
  init.usb.rc
  init.wifi.rc
  init.zygote32.rc
  init.zygote64_32.rc
  knox_data
  mnt
  oem
  persdata
  persist
  postrecovery.do
  preload
  proc
  property_contexts
  publiccert.pem
  root
  sbin
  sdcard
  seapp_contexts
  sepolicy
  sepolicy_version
  service_contexts
  storage
  sys
  system
  tombstones
  ueventd.qcom.rc
  ueventd.rc
  vendor
  verity_key
... which allows the following batch command to be run ...
%A==proc <path>\adb pull /%A
... and I'm currently waiting for the /sys directory to complete, but a
search of those completed so far has found nothing of interest in the
others.

FWIW, the /sys folder never completed, eventually aborting, so I suspect
that, like the /proc folder, it contains circular links - I only
noticed those in the latter folder because they were sockets which gave
rise to ever lengthening error messages, whereas the /sys folder just
kept churning on. This means that the command above should read:

for /f "usebackq tokens=*" %A in (`<path>\adb shell ls`) do @if not
%A==proc if not %A==sys <path>\adb pull /%A

[Java Jive]

Without line wrap, let's see if this comes out better:

for /f "usebackq tokens=*" %A in (`<path>\adb shell ls`) do @if not
%A==proc if not %A==sys <path>\adb pull /%A

[Frank Slootweg]

Java Jive <***@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
[...]

Post by Java Jive
So how does that help me with this backup problem: How to transfer all
my WiFi connection settings from my old Android 7, note carefully the
Android version, Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 SM-T719 to a Pixel 8a.
I tried a number of general data transfer programs to copy stuff between
the two phones, but in the end got best results simply by copying
everything conventionally via my PC. However, the WiFi settings are not
stored in the data accessible from a PC.

Samsung's 'Back up data' backs up Wi-Fi settings to the Samsung Cloud.
Not sure if you can access that data to restore it to a non-Samsung
phone.

AFAIR, Samsung's Windows 'Smart Switch' program also backs up Wi-Fi
settings to your Windows disk (or Network Share?). That makes the Wi-Fi
settings more accessible than from the Samsung Cloud.

AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

Samsung has its 'Smart Switch' Android app to transfer stuff from
Samsung to Samsung and from non-Samsung to Samsung, i.e for
re-installing a new device with the stuff from an old device. So you may
want to check if Google has a similar app to transfer stuff from a
non-Google (i.e. Samsung in your case) device to a Google device.

[Java Jive]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive
So how does that help me with this backup problem: How to transfer all
my WiFi connection settings from my old Android 7, note carefully the
Android version, Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 SM-T719 to a Pixel 8a.
I tried a number of general data transfer programs to copy stuff between
the two phones, but in the end got best results simply by copying
everything conventionally via my PC. However, the WiFi settings are not
stored in the data accessible from a PC.

Samsung's 'Back up data' backs up Wi-Fi settings to the Samsung Cloud.
Not sure if you can access that data to restore it to a non-Samsung
phone.

I've managed to find my Samsung account details, last used many years
ago, and do a backup of 'Settings', though there was no granularity of
which settings were included, so no definite indication that the WiFi
connections have been backed up. As my new phone is not also a Samsung,
and they tend to be rather idiosyncratic, probably I had better not try
to restore the settings to my current phone, if even I can. I've spent
some time on the Samsung website, which is utterly useless [*], trying
to discover how to restore the backup to my PC, but there doesn't seem
to be anything there about any such possibility.

* SO UTTERLY USELESS that ...

:-( I couldn't even enter a phone number to begin a Help-by-SMS
conversation because the number of characters allowed was too small to
permit its last digit to be added, except by omitting the leading zero,
which of course meant that I didn't receive the SMS reply to start the
conversation;

:-( When I tried to start a chatbot, none of the options fitted my
need, and there was no method of choosing a general catchall;

Once again I ask: "Just WHO programs shit as bad as this? Where in
God's name do they look to find such useless idiots?"

Post by Frank Slootweg
AFAIR, Samsung's Windows 'Smart Switch' program also backs up Wi-Fi
settings to your Windows disk (or Network Share?). That makes the Wi-Fi
settings more accessible than from the Samsung Cloud.

I just reinstalled it - having uninstalled it previously because it
only works phone to phone if the receiving phone is a Samsung, whereas
mine is a Pixel 8a - and now I notice, which I did not before, that
while it says it has an option to back up to a computer but no such
option is actually offered in the menu choices, it does have an option
to back up to micro SD card. Unfortunately, I don't have one, but it so
happens I have a Tesco delivery coming tomorrow, so I've just added one
to the order.

Post by Frank Slootweg
AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Samsung has its 'Smart Switch' Android app to transfer stuff from
Samsung to Samsung and from non-Samsung to Samsung, i.e for
re-installing a new device with the stuff from an old device. So you may
want to check if Google has a similar app to transfer stuff from a
non-Google (i.e. Samsung in your case) device to a Google device.

Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Thanks for your helpful suggestions.

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive

   Samsung's 'Back up data' backs up Wi-Fi settings to the Samsung Cloud.
Not sure if you can access that data to restore it to a non-Samsung
phone.

I've managed to find my Samsung account details, last used many years
ago, and do a backup of 'Settings', though there was no granularity of
which settings were included, so no definite indication that the WiFi
connections have been backed up.  As my new phone is not also a Samsung,
and they tend to be rather idiosyncratic, probably I had better not try
to restore the settings to my current phone, if even I can.  I've spent
some time on the Samsung website, which is utterly useless [*], trying
to discover how to restore the backup to my PC, but there doesn't seem
to be anything there about any such possibility.

Tried the Samsung site again today and this time actually found
something useful, WiFi settings ARE included in Cloud backups:

https://www.samsung.com/uk/support/apps-services/use-the-samsung-cloud-to-back-up-and-restore-data-to-your-galaxy-device/

So, as a test of how specific I could be, I tried restoring the backup
to the tablet, rather than the phone, reasoning that it being the source
of the backup it was less likely to be affected for the worse by the
restore, but again the only choice I got was "Settings", I couldn't
choose which settings to restore.

An I still can't find out how to get the backup somewhere more useful to
me, like onto my PC.

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive
An I still can't find out how to get the backup somewhere more useful to
me, like onto my PC.

Not possible :-(

https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS10002032/

"You cannot download your backups individually. If you need to recover
data in Samsung Cloud, you must sync your data to a compatible device."

[Andrews]

Post by Java Jive
"You cannot download your backups individually. If you need to recover
data in Samsung Cloud, you must sync your data to a compatible device."

Thanks for reminding me why on my free Samsung Galaxy A32-5G I set it up
with not only no Google account, but also no Samsung account.

Funny thing is, just as with Windows, Android works better without the
account (in that it does fewer things without you knowing it did it).

I asked on XDA long ago if there was anything in the Samsung offering that
was worth losing your privacy for... the answer came back as one app only.
*[Privacy] Is there any app in the Samsung Galaxy Store worth the login requirements?*
<https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-is-there-any-app-in-the-samsung-galaxy-store-worth-the-login-requirements.4453661/>

By the way, I had asked the question for Java Jive of Wi-Fi backup over on
XDA Developers to try to always be helpful to others asking for help.
*How can we backup & restore all our Wi-Fi AP connection settings from*
*one phone to another (/data/misc/apexdata/com.android.wifi/Wifi*
<https://xdaforums.com/t/how-can-we-backup-restore-all-our-wi-fi-ap-connection-settings-from-one-phone-to-another-data-misc-apexdata-com-android-wifi-wificonfigstore-xml.4701306/>

Not much came back yet, but XDA isn't as responsive as this newsgroup is.
"Starting with Android 11, Google introduced scoped storage
which restricts access to certain directories, including /data.
This means that without root access files in /data can't get
accessed directly."

However, we know apps can access that scoped storage, so the question is
how do the apps that access it do it, and how can we manually mimic that?

[Frank Slootweg]

[...]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
AFAIR, Samsung's Windows 'Smart Switch' program also backs up Wi-Fi
settings to your Windows disk (or Network Share?). That makes the Wi-Fi
settings more accessible than from the Samsung Cloud.

I just reinstalled it - having uninstalled it previously because it
only works phone to phone if the receiving phone is a Samsung, whereas
mine is a Pixel 8a - and now I notice, which I did not before, that
while it says it has an option to back up to a computer but no such
option is actually offered in the menu choices, it does have an option
to back up to micro SD card. Unfortunately, I don't have one, but it so
happens I have a Tesco delivery coming tomorrow, so I've just added one
to the order.

Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
*Android* app (which I *also* covered later).

The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
other 'normal' utilities. IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.

But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
:-) search on "samsung smart switch for windows" shows it's still there:

'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
<https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Samsung has its 'Smart Switch' Android app to transfer stuff from
Samsung to Samsung and from non-Samsung to Samsung, i.e for
re-installing a new device with the stuff from an old device. So you may
want to check if Google has a similar app to transfer stuff from a
non-Google (i.e. Samsung in your case) device to a Google device.

Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least *they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone, while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or *does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

Post by Java Jive
Thanks for your helpful suggestions.

You're very welcome. With Android backup/resstore/transfer, we need
all the help we can get! :-(

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Java Jive
Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least*they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone, while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or*does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

Android has a generic application to clone phones, from old to new.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Java Jive
Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least*they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone, while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or*does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

Android has a generic application to clone phones, from old to new.

And *which* application would that be? I.e. specifics please.

If you mean Google's 'Google Drive Backup data' then 1) I already
mentioned that and, more importantly, 2) that backup/restore is far from
complete. I.e. does it backup apps [1], app data and app settings,
especially for non-Google apps, does it backup all device settings, does
it backup other (than Photos & videos) general folders etc., etc.?

[1] For example, it does not backup apps, it backs up the *names* of
apps, not the apps themselves, and AFAIK for non-Play_Store/Google_Play
apps, it doesn't backup anything, not even the names.

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Java Jive
Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least*they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone, while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or*does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

Android has a generic application to clone phones, from old to new.

And *which* application would that be? I.e. specifics please.

No idea. It just runs when you buy a new phone, it is automatic. Depends
on the brand.

Post by Frank Slootweg
If you mean Google's 'Google Drive Backup data' then 1) I already
mentioned that and, more importantly, 2) that backup/restore is far from
complete. I.e. does it backup apps [1], app data and app settings,
especially for non-Google apps, does it backup all device settings, does
it backup other (than Photos & videos) general folders etc., etc.?

I know that backup is incomplete.

Post by Frank Slootweg
[1] For example, it does not backup apps, it backs up the *names* of
apps, not the apps themselves, and AFAIK for non-Play_Store/Google_Play
apps, it doesn't backup anything, not even the names.

I know.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Java Jive
Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least*they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone, while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or*does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

Android has a generic application to clone phones, from old to new.

And *which* application would that be? I.e. specifics please.

No idea. It just runs when you buy a new phone, it is automatic. Depends
on the brand.

I'm not aware of any such generic Android functionality. When I got my
current Samsung phone (Galaxy A51), it only offered Samsung's 'Smart
Switch' app.

You say "Depends on the brand.", but that's exactly *my* point.

Samsung offers such an app, but do others?

As Java Jive later wrote, Google offers old-to-new transfer
functionality for transfer to a Google phone, but apparently quite
limited, because Java Jive couldn't use it for his old Samsung (Android
7) device. And Samsung's Smart Switch is a general app, i.e. not just
for use at initial install/'switch' time, but also for use at any later
time.

[...]

[Andrews]

Post by Frank Slootweg
I'm not aware of any such generic Android functionality.

A lot of people are unaware that Android backs up by default *every* app
installed (yes, even the system apps that come pre-installed are there).

They're actually not "backed up" so much as the installer is "not deleted".

The installer is never deleted (unless you delete the app off of Android).

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Java Jive
Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least*they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone, while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or*does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

Android has a generic application to clone phones, from old to new.

And *which* application would that be? I.e. specifics please.

No idea. It just runs when you buy a new phone, it is automatic. Depends
on the brand.

I'm not aware of any such generic Android functionality. When I got my
current Samsung phone (Galaxy A51), it only offered Samsung's 'Smart
Switch' app.
You say "Depends on the brand.", but that's exactly *my* point.
Samsung offers such an app, but do others?

Certainly. Motorola, for instance

Post by Frank Slootweg
As Java Jive later wrote, Google offers old-to-new transfer
functionality for transfer to a Google phone, but apparently quite
limited, because Java Jive couldn't use it for his old Samsung (Android
7) device. And Samsung's Smart Switch is a general app, i.e. not just
for use at initial install/'switch' time, but also for use at any later
time.
[...]

[Andrews]

Post by Frank Slootweg
[1] For example, it does not backup apps, it backs up the *names* of
apps, not the apps themselves, and AFAIK for non-Play_Store/Google_Play
apps, it doesn't backup anything, not even the names.

Since my computers and mobile devices are set up for privacy, I just want
to make one observation, not for Frank per se, but for everyone out there.

Windows automatically backs up the installers simply by virtue of not
deleting the installers after you install. So does Android.

What? Android backs up the installers automatically - by default?
Yup.

Most people don't know that EVERY installed app is already backed up.
(Of the major 3, only iOS doesn't back up every app installer by default.)

[Java Jive]

Post by Frank Slootweg
Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
*Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
other 'normal' utilities. IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
<https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>

Thanks for that. Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site.
I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi
settings to a PC - encouragingly, I was given the specificity to
choose to back up only those settings. However, looking at the backed
up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is
encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and
specifically left unselected. I suspect that it's encrypted because the
original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was
encrypted on the phone :-(

From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using
the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
Samsung has its 'Smart Switch' Android app to transfer stuff from
Samsung to Samsung and from non-Samsung to Samsung, i.e for
re-installing a new device with the stuff from an old device. So you may
want to check if Google has a similar app to transfer stuff from a
non-Google (i.e. Samsung in your case) device to a Google device.

Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least *they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone

Yeahbut, if they can provide the option in one direction, they can
provide it in the other direction with minimal or no extra effort or
cost, so why not do it? Their decision not to do so cripples their
software unnecessarily, but creates a disincentive to move away from
Samsung, so, effectively, it's just another shady lock-in mechanism.

Post by Frank Slootweg
while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or *does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

I bought my Pixel 8a at the same time as Andy Burns bought his, and at
the time we conferred and shared notes in uk.telecom.mobile. His
experience was very different from mine because his old phone was newer
than my Samsung, and was running an Android version equal or later than
10, whereas mine is on 7. When we first switched on our phones, we were
both offered a chance to copy everything from an old phone, and this
worked for him because of his later Android version, but I was sent to a
website explaining that my device was too old, hence my problems since
in copying my data. I tried various copying apps, but they all fucked
up in some way or another, so in the end I just copied the data via my
PC, which gave much better results than anything else that I'd tried
and, AFAIAA so far at least, the WiFi data is the only thing of
importance that I haven't been able to copy.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive
Thanks for your helpful suggestions.

You're very welcome. With Android backup/resstore/transfer, we need
all the help we can get! :-(

And thanks again for the link above.

[Paul]

   Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
*Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
   The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
other 'normal' utilities.  IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
   But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
<https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>

Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was encrypted on the phone :-(
From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(

Post by Java Jive

    AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

Post by Java Jive

    Samsung has its 'Smart Switch' Android app to transfer stuff from
Samsung to Samsung and from non-Samsung to Samsung, i.e for
re-installing a new device with the stuff from an old device. So you may
want to check if Google has a similar app to transfer stuff from a
non-Google (i.e. Samsung in your case) device to a Google device.

Yes, as we are agreed, it only works if a Samsung is the destination
phone, another example of deliberately crippling software.

   Well, you might critcize Samsung, but at least *they* provide software
to import your stuff from a non-Samsung phone

Yeahbut, if they can provide the option in one direction, they can provide it in the other direction with minimal or no extra effort or cost, so why not do it?  Their decision not to do so cripples their software unnecessarily, but creates a disincentive to move away from Samsung, so, effectively, it's just another shady lock-in mechanism.

while Google doesn't do
that for their phones. (Or *does* Google have such software? Your
non-response to my suggestion implies they don't.)

I bought my Pixel 8a at the same time as Andy Burns bought his, and at the time we conferred and shared notes in uk.telecom.mobile.  His experience was very different from mine because his old phone was newer than my Samsung, and was running an Android version equal or later than 10, whereas mine is on 7.  When we first switched on our phones, we were both offered a chance to copy everything from an old phone, and this worked for him because of his later Android version, but I was sent to a website explaining that my device was too old, hence my problems since in copying my data.  I tried various copying apps, but they all fucked up in some way or another, so in the end I just copied the data via my PC, which gave much better results than anything else that I'd tried and, AFAIAA so far at least, the WiFi data is the only thing of importance that I haven't been able to copy.

Post by Java Jive
Thanks for your helpful suggestions.

   You're very welcome. With Android backup/resstore/transfer, we need
all the help we can get! :-(

And thanks again for the link above.

There is some info here, on crypto philosophy.

https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/249639/can-an-android-device-connect-to-the-internet-before-decrypting-the-storage

Paul

[Java Jive]

Post by Paul

Post by Frank Slootweg
'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
<https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>

Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was encrypted on the phone :-(
From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(

There is some info here, on crypto philosophy.
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/249639/can-an-android-device-connect-to-the-internet-before-decrypting-the-storage

Interesting ...

"Device Encrypted (DE) storage includes data like WiFi passwords,
Bluetooth connections, alarms, theme, wallpaper, apps & device settings."

... so, as I presume each device has its own encryption key, how can
data which is stored as encrypted be copied in a usable form to another
device, as Smart Switch is supposed to do?

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
*Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
other 'normal' utilities. IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
<https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>

Thanks for that. Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site.
I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi
settings to a PC - encouragingly, I was given the specificity to
choose to back up only those settings. However, looking at the backed
up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is
encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and
specifically left unselected. I suspect that it's encrypted because the
original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was
encrypted on the phone :-(

Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.

Post by Java Jive
From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using
the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening :-(

Yeah, most likely it's also encrypted. :-(

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

[...]

Post by Java Jive
I bought my Pixel 8a at the same time as Andy Burns bought his, and at
the time we conferred and shared notes in uk.telecom.mobile. His
experience was very different from mine because his old phone was newer
than my Samsung, and was running an Android version equal or later than
10, whereas mine is on 7. When we first switched on our phones, we were
both offered a chance to copy everything from an old phone, and this
worked for him because of his later Android version, but I was sent to a
website explaining that my device was too old, hence my problems since
in copying my data. I tried various copying apps, but they all fucked
up in some way or another, so in the end I just copied the data via my
PC, which gave much better results than anything else that I'd tried
and, AFAIAA so far at least, the WiFi data is the only thing of
importance that I haven't been able to copy.

I've done more or less the same. While my new phone was a Samsung (old
phone was a Huawei), I only transferred very few apps with Samsung's
Smart Switch and did most of the work by re-installing apps, copying
data and app-settings, etc.. I did use Samsung's Smart Switch to
transfer the 'simple' stuff like 'Calls and contacts', 'Accounts', (SMS)
'Messages' and 'Bookmarks', but probably could have done most or all of
that with Google's 'Backup data'. (BTW, at the moment, on my Samsung
phone, I can't find a 'Restore' for Google's 'Backup data'! That's not
very useful, is it!? :-))

[...]

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
Note that I referred to the *Windows* 'Smart Switch' program, not the
*Android* app (which I *also* covered later).
The Windows 'Smart Switch' program (obviously) *does* back up to your
computer and creates files on your disk which you can (try to) access by
other 'normal' utilities. IIRC, Smart Switch creates both regular files
and ZIP archives. For the ZIP archives you might need something like
7-Zip, because when I used this quite some time ago, the built-in
Windows unzipper could not handle the format which Smart Switch used.
But to be [f|F]rank, Samsung tries to 'hide' the Windows 'Smart
Switch' program, because I couldn't find it on their main Smart Switch
page (<https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-switch/>). But a quick Google
'Downloading Smart Switch on my PC'
Last Update date : Apr 17. 2024
<https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/downloading-smart-switch-on-pc/>

Thanks for that. Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site.
I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi
settings to a PC - encouragingly, I was given the specificity to
choose to back up only those settings. However, looking at the backed
up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is
encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and
specifically left unselected. I suspect that it's encrypted because the
original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was
encrypted on the phone :-(

Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.

Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not
backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad
guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.

[Frank Slootweg]

[...]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.

Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not
backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad
guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.

That would only work if the bad guy has physical access to your phone
*and* can get *into* that phone, i.e. he has to have the password/PIN/
fingerprint/etc.. That's exactly the reason why for example bootloaders
are locked, i.e. physical access is not enough to get into an Android
phone.

So there's no valid reason for the legit user of the phones not to be
able to transfer the Wi-Fi settings/password (or other passwords).

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.

Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not
backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad
guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.

That would only work if the bad guy has physical access to your phone
*and* can get *into* that phone, i.e. he has to have the password/PIN/
fingerprint/etc.. That's exactly the reason why for example bootloaders
are locked, i.e. physical access is not enough to get into an Android
phone.
So there's no valid reason for the legit user of the phones not to be
able to transfer the Wi-Fi settings/password (or other passwords).

Nevertheless, that is the reason.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Thanks for the feedback. I was about to dig up some old Smart Switch
backups (if any) from my backup disks, but as you've already found the
Wi-Fi settings data is encrypted, there's no point.

Passwords (and WiFi settings contain a password) are intentionally not
backed up or transferred to a new phone. This feature would allow a bad
guy to clone your phone and impersonate you.

That would only work if the bad guy has physical access to your phone
*and* can get *into* that phone, i.e. he has to have the password/PIN/
fingerprint/etc.. That's exactly the reason why for example bootloaders
are locked, i.e. physical access is not enough to get into an Android
phone.
So there's no valid reason for the legit user of the phones not to be
able to transfer the Wi-Fi settings/password (or other passwords).

Nevertheless, that is the reason.

That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has
been more or less debunked by my response of earlier today:

Message-ID: <***@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
<quote>
Hmmmm!? Strange! On my ancient Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 10.1" (SM-T530)
with Android 5.0.2, i.e. even older than yours, Settings says it can
"Back up application data, Wi-Fi passwords and other settings to Google
servers". (Settings -> 'GENERAL' tab -> 'Backup and reset')
</quote>

But granted, that's about backup (and restore to the same device), not
about transfer to a new device.

Still, the 'reason' for not transferring Wi-Fi and other passwords is
invalid/silly/<whatever> for the reasons I gave.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Frank Slootweg
That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has

N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.

On my (Samsung Galaxy A51) Android 13 phone:

Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->

"Device settings 208 KB
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."

N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
dots, but if I go to the one.google.com webpage on my laptop, it says:

"Device settings
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

So Wi-Fi passwords are backed up by Google Backup. Whether they are
also transferred from an old to a new device is still unanswered (by
official references).

[...]

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Frank Slootweg
That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has

N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.

On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing.
Nor does "backup".

I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One",
which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I
disabled (I back them up to Amazon).

Post by Frank Slootweg
Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->

Found it.

Post by Frank Slootweg
"Device settings 208 KB
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
"Device settings
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

Does not open.

Post by Frank Slootweg
So Wi-Fi passwords are backed up by Google Backup. Whether they are
also transferred from an old to a new device is still unanswered (by
official references).
[...]

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Frank Slootweg
That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has

N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.

On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing.
Nor does "backup".
I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One",
which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I
disabled (I back them up to Amazon).

Post by Frank Slootweg
Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->

Found it.

Post by Frank Slootweg
"Device settings 208 KB
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
"Device settings
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

Does not open.

Exactly. My point was only that the Wi-Fi settings *are* backed up,
not that they are seperately accessible/restorable with other tools.

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg
So Wi-Fi passwords are backed up by Google Backup. Whether they are
also transferred from an old to a new device is still unanswered (by
official references).

[Carlos E. R.]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Frank Slootweg
That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has

N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.

On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing.
Nor does "backup".
I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One",
which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I
disabled (I back them up to Amazon).

Post by Frank Slootweg
Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->

Found it.

Post by Frank Slootweg
"Device settings 208 KB
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
"Device settings
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

Does not open.

Exactly. My point was only that the Wi-Fi settings *are* backed up,
not that they are seperately accessible/restorable with other tools.

Not "exactly". Mine does not say what it stores. It doesn't say it
stores wifi passwords. It just says "device settings".

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Frank Slootweg
That Wi-Fi passwords are not backed up 1) is not true for Samsungs's
Smart Switch (see above) and 2) for Google Backup (to Google Drive) has

N.B. Google Backup ('Backup by Google One') specifically says that
Wi-Fi passwords are backed up.

On my Motorola phone, settings, search "Google backup" finds nothing.
Nor does "backup".
I have "copia de seguridad", and "copia de seguridad de Google One",
which must be it. It is as complete as it is, except for photos which I
disabled (I back them up to Amazon).

Post by Frank Slootweg
Settings -> Google / Google services -> All services -> Backup &
restore -> Backup -> Manage storage -> opens one.google.com webpage ->
YOUR DEVICE BACKUP (2) -> Galaxy A51 -> See details ->

Found it.

Post by Frank Slootweg
"Device settings 208 KB
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi password..."
N.B. The part after "password" can not be shown, only gives the three
"Device settings
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

Does not open.

Exactly. My point was only that the Wi-Fi settings *are* backed up,
not that they are seperately accessible/restorable with other tools.

Not "exactly". Mine does not say what it stores. It doesn't say it
stores wifi passwords. It just says "device settings".

But you said "Does not open.", so did or did you not get the

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Carlos E. R.

Post by Frank Slootweg
"Device settings
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more"

message?

Note that this message is on the one.google.com *webpage*, not in the
Settings (sub-)menu itself. I.e. it comes from a the website, not from
your phone itself. So you *see* the message on your *phone*, but it
*comes from* the one.google.com *webserver*.

To be sure, just go to the one.google.com webpage on your computer and
follow the instructions, which I gave earlier:

-> Backup -> View -> "YOUR DEVICE BACKUP ..." -> select your device ->
See details ->

"<your device name>

Last backup: ...
...
Backup details
...
Device settings NNN KB
Wallpaper, Wi-Fi passwords and more
..."

If you do not get this message (with "Wi-Fi passwords", then please
post what the "Backup details" page on your computer *does* say.

[Java Jive]

Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site. I've
downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the WiFi
settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity to
choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the backed
up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data itself is
encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I noted and
specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted because the
original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and that was
encrypted on the phone 🙁
From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted using
the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening 🙁

Prediction correct: The backups by either method seem to consist of
metadata files which are unencrypted, and data files which are encrypted
no matter how the backup is made.

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive

Thanks for that.  Like you, I couldn't find it on the Samsung site.
I've downloaded and installed it from your link, and backed up the
WiFi settings to a PC  -  encouragingly, I was given the specificity
to choose to back up only those settings.  However, looking at the
backed up files, although I can open the zips in 7-zip, the data
itself is encrypted, despite there being an option to encrypt which I
noted and specifically left unselected.  I suspect that it's encrypted
because the original file from the phone was just backed up as is, and
that was encrypted on the phone 🙁
From which I predict that most probably it will also be encrypted
using the micro SD card that is due to arrive early this evening 🙁

Prediction correct: The backups by either method seem to consist of
metadata files which are unencrypted, and data files which are encrypted
no matter how the backup is made.

But then I thought, perhaps if I load Smart Switch onto the Pixel again,
plug in the micro SD, and run it, it will allow me to restore the
backup, but NO! Again the program has been deliberately crippled not to
allow any sort of copying to a non-Samsung device, even from a local source.

Fucking bastards! Guess who'll NEVER be buying another Samsung phone!

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive

    AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

No, this doesn't work either. On the Samsung, the only option presented
by Google's Backup is to back up contacts, I can't see an option to back
up settings.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive

    AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

No, this doesn't work either. On the Samsung, the only option presented
by Google's Backup is to back up contacts, I can't see an option to back
up settings.

Hmmmm!? Strange! On my ancient Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 10.1" (SM-T530)
with Android 5.0.2, i.e. even older than yours, Settings says it can
"Back up application data, Wi-Fi passwords and other settings to Google
servers". (Settings -> 'GENERAL' tab -> 'Backup and reset')

[Java Jive]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive

    AFAIR, Google's 'Back up data' also backs up Wi-Fi settings to your
Google Drive. As both your Samsung tablet and your Google phone have
Google backup and restore, that's a possible path of transfer.

I tend to avoid using Google services because of their reputation for
data harvesting, which in the past has included WiFi information as part
of Streetview, but perhaps if the SD option fails, then I might try that
next.

Perhaps this is what I should try next ...

No, this doesn't work either. On the Samsung, the only option presented
by Google's Backup is to back up contacts, I can't see an option to back
up settings.

Hmmmm!? Strange! On my ancient Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 10.1" (SM-T530)
with Android 5.0.2, i.e. even older than yours, Settings says it can
"Back up application data, Wi-Fi passwords and other settings to Google
servers". (Settings -> 'GENERAL' tab -> 'Backup and reset')

I was going via a different path, which exists on both devices ...

Settings -> Google -> All services -> Backup and Restore

... which only covers contacts.

On the Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 SM-T719, I don't have your 'General' tab
under settings. Searching its settings for 'backup' gives me ...

1 Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Backup Settings
(to Samsung cloud)

2 Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Backup My Data
(to Google Drive)

Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Backup Account
(create spare account, not relevant here)

Cloud and Accounts -> Backup and Restore -> Automatic restore
(auto restore backed up settings when an app is reinstalled)

... also ...

Developer Options -> Desktop backup password

... of which obviously only the first two are relevant:

1 Is the Samsung backup tested yesterday, seemingly can't be restored to
a non-Samsung phone, and anyway seems to have insufficient granularity
to restore *ONLY* the WiFi settings, so it would not seem wise to
restore this en masse to the Pixel, even if I could find out how.

2 I think this might be the same one as you reach by the path you gave
above. It is a single switch option which was already enabled, and is
fully described thus:

"Back up your device data and app data automatically to Google Drive
(including WiFi passwords, the Phone log, app settings, and related files.

App data may include personal information such as contacts, messages,
and pictures."

If I could find out how to restore only the WiFi settings from that to a
different phone, I guess I'd be home and dry, but I can't even find out
how to use it to restore to the *SAME* phone that it was made from.
Searching Settings for 'restore' gives me only the first and fourth hits
above, nothing for restoring any or all of a Google Drive backup.

On the Pixel 8a, searching settings for 'restore' gives me ...

Google Play Services -> Restore contacts
Google Play Services -> Google Contacts sync

1 Apps -> Data Restore Tool

System -> Erase all data (factory reset)

... of which only the app [1] seems relevant. Tapping it takes me to
its App Info, not the app itself, which says that it's running but not
active, and gives details of its permissions. etc. There is no icon on
the home pages for it, and swiping up to get the list of apps gives me
nothing of that name or similar, so, how do I run it manually?

Thanks for all your and others' attempts to help, it's a lovely sunny
day here in Sutherland, so going for a walk now, back later.

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive
2 I think this might be the same one as you reach by the path you gave
above.  It is a single switch option which was already enabled, and is
"Back up your device data and app data automatically to Google Drive
(including WiFi passwords, the Phone log, app settings, and related files.
App data may include personal information such as contacts, messages,
and pictures."
If I could find out how to restore only the WiFi settings from that to a
different phone, I guess I'd be home and dry, but I can't even find out
how to use it to restore to the *SAME* phone that it was made from.

Now that Google Drive is enabled and functional on both devices, both
have made a backup, each of which the other can see listed, but, even on
the same device as made the backup, you can't actually *DO* anything
with these backups, other than delete them.

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive
2 I think this might be the same one as you reach by the path you gave
above.  It is a single switch option which was already enabled, and is
"Back up your device data and app data automatically to Google Drive
(including WiFi passwords, the Phone log, app settings, and related files.
App data may include personal information such as contacts, messages,
and pictures."
If I could find out how to restore only the WiFi settings from that to a
different phone, I guess I'd be home and dry, but I can't even find out
how to use it to restore to the *SAME* phone that it was made from.

Now that Google Drive is enabled and functional on both devices, both
have made a backup, each of which the other can see listed, but, even on
the same device as made the backup, you can't actually *DO* anything
with these backups, other than delete them.

Ain't that great! Who needs restore?

Let me check my phone:

Settings -> Accounts and backup ->

"Samsung Cloud
Back up data (offers choices for what (not) to back up)
Restore data (offers choices for what (not) to restore)
('Settings' choice includes Wi-Fi settings!)

Google Drive
Back up data"
(has no restore section!)

What brand was your new phone again!?

Sorry, couldn't resist, just kidding.

[Java Jive]

Post by Frank Slootweg

Post by Java Jive

Post by Java Jive
2 I think this might be the same one as you reach by the path you gave
above.  It is a single switch option which was already enabled, and is
"Back up your device data and app data automatically to Google Drive
(including WiFi passwords, the Phone log, app settings, and related files.
App data may include personal information such as contacts, messages,
and pictures."
If I could find out how to restore only the WiFi settings from that to a
different phone, I guess I'd be home and dry, but I can't even find out
how to use it to restore to the *SAME* phone that it was made from.

Now that Google Drive is enabled and functional on both devices, both
have made a backup, each of which the other can see listed, but, even on
the same device as made the backup, you can't actually *DO* anything
with these backups, other than delete them.

Ain't that great! Who needs restore?
Settings -> Accounts and backup ->
"Samsung Cloud
Back up data (offers choices for what (not) to back up)
Restore data (offers choices for what (not) to restore)
('Settings' choice includes Wi-Fi settings!)

But no granularity, so you can't restore just one item or set of items
from the Settings, and you can't restore to a non-Samsung phone, and
perhaps even any phone other than the one that made the backup, though
I'm unsure of that last point.

Post by Frank Slootweg
Google Drive
Back up data"
(has no restore section!)

Yes, ridiculous! Google seems to be keener on having your data to trawl
than actually allowing you, the owner of it, to use it meaningfully!
Presumably what is supposed to happen is that, if your phone gets wiped,
it will offer to restore from the last backup, but I'm not about to test
that by wiping my phone! Today's tests have reminded me why I always
had Google Drive disabled from the start.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Java Jive
Presumably what is supposed to happen is that, if your phone gets wiped,
it will offer to restore from the last backup

Yes, there have been a couple of times e.g. I've had a hardware fault on
a brand new phone, had to wipe it to exchange it for a replacement, and
hit the restore button, and it just does that (apart from software such
as K-9 which doesn't store config backups in the Google account)

Post by Java Jive
but I'm not about to test that by wiping my phone!

You've presumably got your old one that you could play with?

[Java Jive]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Java Jive
Presumably what is supposed to happen is that, if your phone gets
wiped, it will offer to restore from the last backup

Yes, there have been a couple of times e.g. I've had a hardware fault on
a brand new phone, had to wipe it to exchange it for a replacement, and
hit the restore button, and it just does that (apart from software such
as K-9 which doesn't store config backups in the Google account)

Post by Java Jive
but I'm not about to test that by wiping my phone!

You've presumably got your old one that you could play with?

Snakes And Ladders, or Catch 22, again - don't want to play with it
until I've extracted the WiFi logons!

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andy Burns
You've presumably got your old one that you could play with?

Snakes And Ladders, or Catch 22, again  -  don't want to play with it
until I've extracted the WiFi logons!

Create a virtual phone within Android Studio and play with that instead?

[Frank Slootweg]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Java Jive
Presumably what is supposed to happen is that, if your phone gets wiped,
it will offer to restore from the last backup

Yes, there have been a couple of times e.g. I've had a hardware fault on
a brand new phone, had to wipe it to exchange it for a replacement, and
hit the restore button, and it just does that (apart from software such
as K-9 which doesn't store config backups in the Google account)

In my experience *most* (non-Google) software doesn't store
configuration settings in the Google account (or Google Drive). They
(have to) store it in their app-private area (Android\data, etc.) which
means that general purpose backup programs can not access it and hence
can not back it up.

This is really a pain, because you have to 'export' (*if* such a
function is available in the app) app-private settings from each and
every non-Google app to some common area, before you can back it up. Not
to mention not being able to backup app-private data.

That said, do *you* have any positive experience that the Google
restore method restores the *data* of non-Google apps (i.e. for example
to local mail copies of K-9 Mail)?

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Java Jive
but I'm not about to test that by wiping my phone!

You've presumably got your old one that you could play with?

Luckily, I've not yet needed to restore any stuff which I could not
backups, but that's mostly because my old phone had Android 5.1.1, so
the app-private areas still *could* be backed up by convential methods,

[Andrews]

Post by Frank Slootweg
In my experience *most* (non-Google) software doesn't store
configuration settings in the Google account (or Google Drive). They
(have to) store it in their app-private area (Android\data, etc.) which
means that general purpose backup programs can not access it and hence
can not back it up.

This is for everyone not so much for Frank as I'm sure Frank knows this.

Regarding where apps store their data, (some apps, not all, not even most
perhaps, but some apps) will store data onto the users' external sd card.

For those programs, what I do is format the external sd card with a known
volume label (e.g., 0000-0001) which allows me to pull out that sd card and
put it into another phone which is "expecting" the data in that location.

Works every time... Which makes me wonder...

Why not pull out that sdcard and copy it on Windows to fully back it up?
I don't normally do that because I don't need to, but wouldn't that work?

Summary:
Q: Would it work to back up an external sdcard to simply "copy" it?
A: ?

Note I'm aware that won't work for fundamental operating system files which
are stored on sdcard0 and not stored on the external sdcard - but still...

[Frank Slootweg]

[...]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
Settings -> Accounts and backup ->
"Samsung Cloud
Back up data (offers choices for what (not) to back up)
Restore data (offers choices for what (not) to restore)
('Settings' choice includes Wi-Fi settings!)

But no granularity, so you can't restore just one item or set of items
from the Settings, and you can't restore to a non-Samsung phone, and
perhaps even any phone other than the one that made the backup, though
I'm unsure of that last point.

Indeed, only useful for restoring to the same phone or a replacement
(Samsung) phone.

Post by Java Jive

Post by Frank Slootweg
Google Drive
Back up data"
(has no restore section!)

Yes, ridiculous! Google seems to be keener on having your data to trawl
than actually allowing you, the owner of it, to use it meaningfully!
Presumably what is supposed to happen is that, if your phone gets wiped,
it will offer to restore from the last backup, but I'm not about to test
that by wiping my phone! Today's tests have reminded me why I always
had Google Drive disabled from the start.

Yes, the Google backup can probably restored to the same device and,
as Andy also indicated, the Google backup can be restored to a new
phone. That's described by following the links on the Google One
(one.google.com) site:

-> Backup -> Back up your device -> Lern more ->

'Back up your device'
<https://support.google.com/googleone/answer/9149304>
(select 'Android' tab if not preselected)
"...
Get your data onto a new phone

Your photos and videos are already available in Google Photos. You can
restore your backed up data when you set up your new device for the
first time or after you set up your device.

* At setup, to restore your data, follow the on-screen steps.
..."

The detailed instructions are mostly for Google Pixel phones, but I
think other brands have similar capability.

At the time, 4 years ago, my Samsung phone only presented the
(Samsung) Smart Switch procedure, but perhaps the Google restore method
was available somewhere else, like in Settings.

Bottom line: It's still strange that also this ('Back up your device')
document doesn't say anything about restoring to the *same* ('old')
phone.

[Frank Slootweg]

Bob Martin <***@excite.com> wrote:
[...]

Post by Bob Martin
I used to use TWRP to do a full backup of my Nexus phones.

AFAIK, using TWRP for a full backup requires an unlocked bootloader
[1]. Normally the bootloader is locked, because an unlocked bootloader
is a security risk in case the phone falls into the wrong hands.

For the same reason, on most phones unlocking the bootloader (via an
unlocking code from the manufacturer or third party) will do a factory
reset, deleting all the very programs and data you're trying to backup.
Catch-22.

So how did you get to flash TWRP on your Nexus without these
problems?

[1] See for example:
'Is it necessary to unlock bootloader before flashing a recovery like
TWRP?'
<https://www.quora.com/Is-it-necessary-to-unlock-bootloader-before-flashing-a-recovery-like-TWRP>

[Andrews]

Post by Paul
"There is no method to make a full backup of android smartphones.
It is always only a partial backup"
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/226573/adb-pull-stops-after-first-error
It's the stuff nightmares are made of.

As a (hopefully wise) octogenarian who lived through the age of computers,
successful backup are not a series of neatly marked and organized magtape
rolls tightly packed in numbered boxes well organized in a storage closet.

And successful backups don't require anything stored on the Internet.
The Internet isn't involved in a successful backup and restore.

Remember that.

A successful backup is something that you can restore & move forward with.
Paradoxically, a good backup is also your transition to a new machine.
And, your first good backup on a new machine becomes your next template.

You see? There is wisdom learned having lived through the computer age.
You all know how many times you did those things WITHOUT a good backup.

And it was miserable.
No more!

However... there is no such thing as a good backup/restore w/o planning!

On any platform, Windows or Android, a successful restore means planning
ahead, e.g., storing everything you care about in one folder (if possible).

For Windows, for me, that one folder for stuff I care about is C:\data.
For Android, it's /storage/sdcard0/0000/. & /storage/sdcard1/0001/.

People get all hung up on the short names I use but names aren't the point.
Choose your own names for your own top-level stuff you care about.

When you restore, you only need to restore the stuff you care about.
When you set up a new machine, you only need to bring over that same stuff.

You treat a restore the same way you treat setting up a new machine.
You set up ALL your machines the same way - it's easy if you plan ahead.

I moved from XP to a series of crap Windows to Windows 10 that way.
And my data and menus on Windows 10 are the *same* as they were on WinXP!

Yes. The same. The same menus work. That's because I planned ahead.
I planned ahead on Windows 95, to XP to all the crap & finally to Win10.

Same menus.
Same files.
Same data.

On Windows, C:\data\menus contains your menus, for example, so that you
have all your menus available when you restore. Since C:\apps contains your
apps (such as C:\apps\browsers\firefox\firefox.exe) the TARGET of all your
menus is always the same from Windows XP to all the Windows in between up
to Windows 10. Firefox is *still* in the same location it was on WinXP.

So all your menus still work just fine.

What about Android?
Same thing!

On Android you have a homescreen:browsers > firefox shortcut icon, right?
You bring it over from the old Android to the new Android & it just works.

Just as on Windows your entire set of menus is only a single hierarchy,
your entire homescreen on Android is only a single backup file.

You bring over that single backup file of your homescreen setup, and all
your icons and shortcuts and wizards move over to the new machine.

I've handed someone my old phone & my new phone (set up moments prior)
and other than for the scratches, they can't tell them apart.

The homescreen on Android 13 is the same as it was on Android 7.
The cascade accordion menu on Windows 10 is the same as it was on XP.
(There are slight improvements as you hone your menus over time.)

In summary, a successful backup requires only planning ahead.
a. Store what you care about in a single folder hierarchy.
(that isn't polluted by the operating system & program installers)
b. Back that single hierarchy up without needing the Internet.
c. Restore it onto every phone & PC in your house
(so that they all have the same consistent user interface & data)

Good luck Jim. This tape will self destruct in five seconds.

[Frank Slootweg]

micky <***@fmguy.com> wrote:
[...]

Post by micky
I've been using MyPhoneExlorer to both connect the phone and to copy
from it, and I have to compare the source and dest each time to see what
to copy, but maybe all I need to do is plug the phone into a USB port
and use any of the Windows-based backup programs that don't copy what's
already copied. Like robocopy or xxcopy.

AFAIK, if you're using MyPhoneExlorer, you're using an interactive,
i.e. not command-line/script, procedure.

If so, it's indeed probably easier to just plug in the phone via USB
and use Windows' File Explorer to do the copying (copy-and-paste).

After the copying, just use Properties on the source folder of the
phone and the destination folder on the computer. The number of Files
and Folders and the Size (*not* 'Size on disk') should be the same.

Anyway, that's what I use when copying pictures from phones or other
external devices.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on 4 Nov 2024 15:41:03 GMT, Frank Slootweg

Post by Frank Slootweg
[...]

Post by micky
I've been using MyPhoneExlorer to both connect the phone and to copy
from it, and I have to compare the source and dest each time to see what
to copy, but maybe all I need to do is plug the phone into a USB port
and use any of the Windows-based backup programs that don't copy what's
already copied. Like robocopy or xxcopy.

AFAIK, if you're using MyPhoneExlorer, you're using an interactive,
i.e. not command-line/script, procedure.

Yes.

Post by Frank Slootweg
If so, it's indeed probably easier to just plug in the phone via USB
and use Windows' File Explorer to do the copying (copy-and-paste).
After the copying, just use Properties on the source folder of the
phone and the destination folder on the computer. The number of Files
and Folders and the Size (*not* 'Size on disk') should be the same.

I hadn't thought of using Properties of the phone. Thanx

Post by Frank Slootweg
Anyway, that's what I use when copying pictures from phones or other
external devices.